In what way is Huckabee a "modernizer"?

I don't get it. Why would Huckabee spell doom? Because the moneyed elites wouldn't give money to Huckabee? I don't buy that for a second. They'd give to Huckabee because a lot of them hate Democrats and they'd realize that much of what Huckabee would propose would probably never get enacted anyway.

Ezra, you really should do yourself a favor and peruse user diaries on Redstate.com occasionally. (Not masochistically, for nearly an hour every day, like I do.) You'll get a good sense of (a) where genuine wingers stand on the field (b) why they don't like McCain and Huck (c) how much they like Fred and (d) how much they love Limbaugh and take him totally seriously as the leader of a movement.

Brooks is right. The Republican Party is falling apart. The coalition of religious conservatives, economic conservatives and foreign policy conservatives is splintering. It doesn't help that the latter 2 are contemptuous of the religious people, and that the policies of the economic and foreign policy conservatives have been shown to be failures.

The market has lost all its gains from 2007 just 2 weeks into 2008, and the S&P has already lost 25% of it's 2006 gains. And the experts are saying things are only going to get worse. The economy is going to be the most important issue by far come November, (Iraq? not even close), which spells even more doom for the Republicans. The Democratic nominee will win by over 5% of the popular vote--regardless of the nominees. Dems will pick up 4-5 seats in the Senate and 10+ seats in the House.

The Republican Party may never recover. However, things will be so bad economically in the next presidential term that I don't know what kind of shape the Democratic Party will be in either. As a friend of mine said at a party on Saturday, "I'll put money down right now that whoever wins in 2008 doesn't win in 2012."

I have long believed that the Republican, party with its racist tinge needs to go away and be replaced by a split in democratic party between those for and against economic freedom.
The Republican, party is too corrupt and caries too much bad baggage consider they go into every election down 10% because even some very conservative blacks find the party abhorrent.

Among the Freepers, Zombie Fred Thompson is the one true hope for conservatism. McCain is McQueeg, Huckabee is a dangerous liberal, Romney is a phony.

As for Limbaugh, his use of 'spadework' and 'hoes' when talking about Obama and Clinton was a pretty audible dog-whistle.

As a friend of mine said at a party on Saturday, "I'll put money down right now that whoever wins in 2008 doesn't win in 2012."

You've read of how foreclosed houses have the fixtures and fitting stripped by the time the occupants leave? Bush is going to do that to the country.

The main reason the GOP is splintering is that fiscal and foreign policy conservatives have become increasingly amoral or immoral on social issues and therefore have become increasingly intolerant and hostile toward social conservatives.

George Washington put it well when he said that religion and morality were vital to our political prosperity:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." (Farewell Address, 1796)

Christmas (is that a Light In August reference? awesome if so), it's always hard to tell with Rush when he's frothing, but by "modernizing" I think he vaguely means re-aligning or heterodox: i.e., Huck on the welfare state, McCain on immigration, torture, and campaign finance reform.

Griffith, where in Washington's speech does it say that religious morality should be codified into law? That is what separates a conservatively religious libertarian or liberal from a social conservative: an unwillingness to use the state to engineer society into a religious mold. Also, considering that religious morality back then was used to justify slavery, you really don't have much of a point.

Don't underestimate Romney. For all his flaws, and there are many, he comes across as generally reasonable and competent. It won't be easy to argue that it would be dangerous to put him in the White House, the way it might be with Huck or Rudy.

His demeanor, rhetoric, and to some extent even his policy positions all suggest a kind of bland moderateness which might make him an acceptable "safe choice" if enough people chicken out on voting for a woman or an African-American.

Reality Man,

I'm not Griffith, but there is definitely an equivocation between what evangelicals and non-evangelicals mean when they want to see a more Christian nation/Constitution.

The 13th and 14th Amendment is what evangelicals mean. Evangelicals would also like a new amendment clarifying that 'person' means 'all members of the species Homo sapiens.' In other words, biblical moral principles. I'm sure a defense of marriage amendment is part of the patriarchal theocracy to many, but can you please try to step back for a second? Don't you think it is really uncool for parents to bring a child into the world with the premeditated desire of raising it apart from one of its biological parents?

They are not forcing Christian worship on people, unless saying "under God" in the Declaration of Independence counts as Christian worship.

doh! I meant to write 'pledge of allegiance'!

"Modernizers" - Huckabee? Seems like he wants us all on a direct path back to the dark ages. Rush, lay off the oxy, it's continues to addle your simple mind.

Justin, less coded language, more concrete statements:

You want an amendment to ban abortion and you want to stop gays from marrying. This has nothing to do with "defining persons as homo sapiens" or "defense of marriage." Just say that and we can work from there.

This has nothing to do with the technical specificities of the 13th and 14th amendment and how it relates to being a "christian nation."

The GOP is not the party of ideas, but more like a cult of personality.

McCain isn't loathed by the Freepers and Red Staters because of his Immigration policy, it's because he disagreed with GWB. McCain is the only fiscal conservative left in the GOP.

And Huckabee represents the Evangelicals getting off the GOP plantation.

I assume anything Rush says is directly from the moneyed wing of the Republican Party. The money guys want Mitt, pretty simple.

And yeah, Limbaugh is important. The question is whether or not the Evangelicals in the south will vote for their guy or not. What are the preachers saying might be the correct question to ask.

Jason C.:

Don't underestimate Romney. For all his flaws, and there are many, he comes across as generally reasonable and competent. It won't be easy to argue that it would be dangerous to put him in the White House, the way it might be with Huck or Rudy.

Just to underscore this point, watch this video of Olbermann's Countdown:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/16/countdowns-worst-persons-gop-candidates-edition/

Notice that McCain and Guiliani are scowling and crazy looking in their photos. The worst Olbermann's staff could find of Romney is a photo without that wax-museum smile of his. He has a knack for appearing calm and rational even when he's spouting batshit insanities...

Dervin, you are mistaken. GWB is really not very popular among genuine conservatives. The White House is going out of its way to support the DC gun ban in the Supreme Court this week, there's amnesty last year, and a dozen other things. Plus he's sort of a moron.

McCain was against the tax cuts, for McCain-Feingold(which didn't really do much of anything, but at least was annoying to many on the Right and Left in 1st Amendment terms), for amnesty, etc etc.

I also find it hilarious that you think the GOP is about a cult of personality, when you have Ezra Klein on this website acting like Obama is Jesus 2.0...and then saying terrible, terrible things on twitter about Russert for stirring up trouble between Hillary and Obama...

"Dervin, you are mistaken. GWB is really not very popular among genuine conservatives."

Not anymore he isn't. But if you think liberals have forgotten how 'genuine conservatives' went into a full out man crush over Commander Codpiece in May 2003 you got another think coming. Remember 'Mission Accomplished', remember the Right pissing all over dissenters who expressed some doubts? Well I do, I got a whole shower of yellow rain and didn't like it a bit. Instead of admitting you just got it all wrong then, you claim you never really fell for the guy in the first place.

When I called him kind of a moron four years ago you and yours called me a traitor and 'explained' that we all had a patriotic duty to fall in line behind a war time President.

Well welcome to reality, but not everything falls down the memory hole. When Bush approval hit 89% I doubt many of you 'genuine conservatives' weren't on board the Bushwagon.

GWB is really not very popular among genuine conservatives.

Bush still has an approval rating of more than 60% among Republicans. Up until the Republicans lost both houses of congress, it was about 70-75%. One could, of course, claim that 60-70% of Republicans are not "genuine conservatives."

I also find it hilarious that you think the GOP is about a cult of personality

Oh, really?

And if this is a contest between who's a "genuine conservative," certainly more favor would fall upon McCain's fiscal conservatism than Bush's.

Personally, I think McCain got a raw deal, politically. His greatest sin was to challenge Bush for the nomination in 2000, and he seems to have been tainted by that ever since, marking him as an apostate.

GWB is really not very popular among genuine conservatives.

Well, if you can find any genuine conservatives in the US to ask them, maybe we could know. Instead what we have is a cult of people who think of themselves as "conservatives" who actually want something completely different for our country (like a scary theocracy or a wild west corporate free for all) and these people still overwhelmingly support Bush Jr. and are still out there making up hilarous excuses for his numerous screw ups.

With any luck the GOP may yet return to Eisenhower Republicanism.