conservatives hater John McCain. There is no real reason for it, he's a right wing whackjob, but they still hate him. The media and the establishment can pump him up all they want, all they are doing is bewildering their base.

There is no real reason for it, he's a right wing whackjob, but they still hate him.

Yeah, but now he's got Al Gore's running mate pimping him. That'll bring 'em around.

Still happy in Canada.

I actually don't see where McCain's support comes from. If he's lucky, he'll win NH, but it's not like he's strong in any other states. I still say Romney.

But, I bet David Broder is SALIVATING over an McCain/Liberman vs. Obama/Other Moderate 2008 campaign.

the battle never ends.
honestly, the darkseid works ceaselessly dreaming up new twists and configurations to confound and demoralize.
....there is a little story of a woman in a flooded house, standing on the room waiting for a miracle.
a helicopter comes, but she stands on the roof in the rain and rising waters....waiting.
well, this is the rescue. we have a shining moment in obama. there is the appearance of Good.
i am wishing for a hedge of protection around him.
...with unwavering will and undivided purpose, we can make this happen.
may we not lose this defining moment.
the water is rising and there is still a way out if we take it.
the woman on the roof drowned, waiting...because she wouldnt see the miracle.
let that not be us.
now, or never.

If Obama wins the Democratic nomination, do you think race will be factor in the general election?

Will blacks be motivated to vote for Obama because he is black? Would that be legitimate of them to do so?

ElV, what does your comment have to do with McCain and Lieberman?

I expect a detailed explanation.

Will blacks be motivated to vote for Obama because he is black? Would that be legitimate of them to do so?

I'm not black, but if I were, you bet your ass I'd vote for the black presidential candidate.

I don't see why it really matters, though, as black people overwhelmingly vote Democratic anyway.

Good God Almighty, if there's any man in this country that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up and my stomach to curdle it's Slimy Joe Lieberman.

It's not enough that he's pissed on his Dem and Independent supporters in the last election, now he's peddling his sh*t for Mister Stay In Iraq Forever McPain.

I wonder how he can walk the streets of any town in this country without someone kicking him in the balls!

I surely would...

wagonjak has it right, Lieberman and McCain make me sick. McCain is so awful I made sure to rate him badly on www.fittobepres.com. It's just too bad the site doesn't list all of his weaknesses.

el viajero

i imagine that race will be a factor in this election.
imagine what a wonderful thing it would be if that was not the case...the victory last night was so heartening.
but. el, i also think that obama's message is beseeching us to transcend race and politics.
whereas huckabee defines himself as a "christian leader"..edwards already has raised swords against the interests that he will need to work with in order to accomplish change, hillary speaks out as a champion of change while she herself,is enmeshed and endorses the forces against change.
since she voted for the kyl-lieberman amendment, does that draw her closer to lieberman than obama?

i think that obama is the embodiment of a new order or paradigm.
just as jesse jackson celebrated a "rainbow" coalition that first celebrated diversity, it seems to me that obama's message is a celebration of unity...building on kindredness rather than a celebration of differences.
and at its heart, it is a kind of messianic message, without religion, but with spirit.
character always matters.the essential nature of a person does matter, and it affects their work and legacy.
for instance, how could edwards not offer a gracious acknowledgement last night to barack obama?
the absence of that touch of grace and humility and acknowledgement for the hard works of another person?
even al gore was able to find grace in his heart to give bush an acknowledgement...and to me, that spoke so much to the dignity and gravitas of al gore. an act of grace at a moment like that must have been most bitter and sorrowful.
obama seems, as i mentioned before, like the lotus...in the mud, but not of the mud. his spiritual message seems to be for all of us to finally try and transcend to a higher place.
goodness and forgiveness, then as now, is the most threatening and revolutionary message for people to hear. it challenges us to grow and rise up out of the mud.
i hope we can all do the hard work as individuals and as united people of america...and the planet.

i think that obama is the embodiment of a new order or paradigm ... it is a kind of messianic message, without religion, but with spirit. ... his spiritual message seems to be for all of us to finally try and transcend to a higher place.

I don't quite understand why, but Barack Obama seems to make people go insane.

El V.

I think this goes to the heart of why so many have said that obama transcends race. He doesnt play it as a card, at least as blatantly as someone like Jesse Jackson did. Its a tool he could use, but chooses not too. This is unlike Clinton and the sexcard, she doesnt play it herself, but doesnt seem upset to let others proxy it for her.

In Chicago politics he shyed away from endorsements that seemed racially biased. He talks about issues that appeal to whites as well as blacks and others, not just about 'black issues'.

In fact there is a large percentage of blacks that Wont vote for him. They wont because he is black, but doesnt 'act black', or is 1/2 white, or has a degree from Harvard instead of LSU or whatever.

Really though.. its no more upsetting thinking that someone would vote for a candidate based on race, then knowing there are so many 'straight ticket' people out there.

Its the downside of mob democracy.. we gotta hope that there are more people out there willing to think about the issues and the strengths of the candidates then just finding a common trait and voting that. If there arent, we really are doomed in the long run.

Look at dictatorships and other forms of government. The leaders there lead due to some strong trait.. agressiveness, ruthlessness, shrewdness, maybe even ideally dedication to the people. If we devolve down to trait based voting our leaders wont have any traits other then being black, or a woman, or a southerner. ..and when it comes down to a crisis needing leadership we just wont have it in us.

"I don't quite understand why, but Barack Obama seems to make people go insane."

He has the same quality that Reagan, JFK, and FDR had. Not just supporters, but devoted supporters. It can be weird at times, but it's great for winning elections.

mad6798j, it's not the issue of devoted supporters. It's that he seems to move people to attempt to express their devotion in poetic form. Bad poetry, though, of the sort you read from depressed 16 year old teenagers about boy/girl they're silently lusting after.

I'm not black, but if I were, you bet your ass I'd vote for the black presidential candidate.

It seems that no one has a problem with blacks voting for a candidate because he is black.
If a white person votes for a candidate because he is white, that OK, too? How would that be any different than blacks voting for Obama because of race?

I can't believe you let the racist shit EV hijack this thread.

Here's my response: Go back to Little Green Footballs and suck my fucking dick, you shit-eating scumbag.

Race is always a big issue. You, Bruce, and people like you have made sure of that. You have promoted state sanctioned race preference )racism in government), promoted Affirmative Action and other race issues.

Now, we have a prospect of racial voting and *NOW* Brucie would like to forget race.

Oh, and let's not forget this:
suck my fucking dick, you shit-eating scumbag.

Nice, Bruce....really nice...

I can't believe you let the racist shit EV hijack this thread.

Apologies. I mistook his question for a sincere, good faith query. Won't do that again.

ElV, if that's so important to you, why don't you find a comment thread where that's the topic, or, barring that, starting your own blog.

Unless I missed something, and you can explain to me (I'm giving you another chance, here) what this has to do with McCain and Lieberman's current partnership...

I want to add, that I don't really think jacqueline is insane, and it seems a bit harsh to have said that. It's just that she's getting a little carried away, like a lot of people right about now.

In a way, it's a bit reminiscent of McCain himself in 2000. Sometimes, a figure is so charismatic, that people start to go beyond all reason in what they attribute to him or her. They get caught up in a biography, which when it comes down to it doesn't really mean squat. Without their respective biographies, neither Barack Obama nor John McCain would have any business running for president.

"Without their respective biographies, neither Barack Obama nor John McCain would have any business running for president"

Biographies are always a big part of a campaign. The man from Hope. Son of a mill worker, etc.

To add to what I just said. What has Clinton ever accomplished that qualifies her to be president, being first lady? What has Edwards ever accomplished, cosponsoring the Iraq war resolution? I don't see Obama being out of his league in this respect.

I don't see Obama being out of his league in this respect.

I should have been more precise - Obama, without the apparently captivating personal narrative, wouldn't even be thinking about running for president in 2008. 2016, sure. Maybe even 2012. But not this year.

Obama himself seemed to believe initially that an '08 run would be absurdly premature; when asked about it after being elected in '04, he just laughed it off, and pointed out that he had only just been elected Senator.

He changed his mind and decided to strike while the iron was hot, which I'm a little bit surprised hasn't been more of an issue (going back on a promise to the people of Illinois to finish his term?). I don't really blame him, though; he saw that his moment was now, and that spending another four or possibly eight years (if a Democrat won) in the Senate could actually hurt his chances.

Personally, I don't really care about Obama's alleged lack of "accomplishment," whatever that means. But I think it's pretty clear that no one else in politics would have dared to make a run for the president after a grand total of two years' experience in major-league politics.

"But I think it's pretty clear that no one else in politics would have dared to make a run for the president after a grand total of two years' experience in major-league politics."

FDR and Lincoln. Carter had 4.

FDR and Lincoln. Carter had 4.

I highly doubt Obama would have wanted to explain away his lack of experience by comparing himself to any of those individuals.

Before you get all carried away, tell us when the last time a sitting senator was elected president.....

Before you get all carried away, tell us when the last time a sitting senator was elected president.....

I hate being surrounded by idiots (and yes, I know, you hate the intrusion of the occasional intelligent person no less).

Timeline :

EV trolls into the thread by asking about Obama's famed Blackness. It's TOTAL troll. Not "troll" as in, "he supports Romney so he's not one of us! - He's a T-R-O-L-L!" whine (or vice versa on the right wing sites) but The True Troll. Someone who's intent is to derail the discussion. And in such a scenario the wise wisdom is (as we all know) Not To Feed The Troll.

And so the solitary hero of the thread, Tyro, immediately moves in to shut EV down. He points out what I thought would require no pointing - that EV is way out of line and ought to be ignored.

But, as it turns out Tyro's hint-hint-nudge-nudge was no only required but appears to have gone almost entirely unheeded. People love to talk about race. The fact that such discussion is generally disallowed makes it appear all the more desirable and boner-inducing in the idiotic masses and so they leave McCain and Leiberman (about whom they know no more than two or three half-facts) by the wayside and comfy up around the campfire to talk about race. The only thing that would have brought out even more morons would have been the question, "So, if you could have a threesome with any two potential First Ladies when they were ion their heyday, which two would you bone?" - Morons love the smell of red herring in the morning...

Yah, so anyhow, eventually EV gets around to asking how people can be all for voting for a candidate on account of his race when that race is black but would never vote for someone on account of his race if he were white. - Whatever. EV's intentions for attempted derailment don't interest me. It's the lemmings that do.

And then the moron supreme pops in. Bruce, it turns out, who pipes in with this (and I'll end with his quote, you can do your own cerebral commentary on its beauty):

I can't believe you let the racist shit EV hijack this thread.

Here's my response: Go back to Little Green Footballs and suck my fucking dick, you shit-eating scumbag.

mnuez
www.mnuez.blogspot.com

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