Did anyone else notice that Chait's post is posted in the future?

If it's not dangerous to your career, why won't anyone in politics or the media do it?

You point to an academic, but nobody with a public profile. Until you can actually do that, this whole post is kind of pointless.

The Juicebox Mafia...? What in the world is that supposed to mean?

Something like this happened in the 1980s and '90s, when anyone who challenged institutional black opinion (CBC, NAACP, Jesse Jackson, et al.), including such unlikely suspects as Arthur Schlesinger Jr., was branded "racist."

Trouble was, it soon became hard to separate dissenters from racial orthodoxy from all but the most obvious racists. In time, poisonous crap a la "Barack the Magic Negro" became "satire."

It's very unclear to me. But also totally awesome.

And Soullite: Did you see last week's Time cover? Or the columns by NYT columnists Kristof and Cohen?

What Ezra said.

Perhaps it did not directly harm Walt, et al, but the wider chilling effect is harder to measure and perhaps more corrosive. That's the real strategy behind these attacks.

"Juicebox" is a thinly veiled reference to your youth and naivete, Ezra. "Mafia" means you are not alone.

The antipode (in case you're shopping for one) would be "Metamucil Mafia."

"Perhaps it did not directly harm Walt, et al, but the wider chilling effect is harder to measure and perhaps more corrosive. That's the real strategy behind these attacks."

And it really is harder to tag Jews as being antisemitic. I think many non-Jews still feel compelled to stay out of the conversation.

"It's very unclear to me. But also totally awesome."

It is awesome, but is it really that unclear?

The Progressive Blogosphere™ is a bit like a mafia, with all of the attendant cronyism, intimidation, and group protection efforts taking precedence over more intellectually honest efforts. (See things like Ezra pushing forward a hack like Mark Schmitt for MTP...)

Marty is well aware of the mafia-like aspects of political groupings, since he has spent decades carefully and successfully creating a Marty Mafia with TNR.

In effect, he's just calling you young.

-----

And yes, you should want T-Shirts and logos. It's a great moniker. And it calls to mind some great images.

Peretz insults should always be worn as a badge of pride, and this is a tasty one.

"A genuine anti-Semite would be, should be, drummed out of political journalism, just as a legitimate racist should find no home at a serious opinion outlet."

Which is why Pat Buchanan has so much trouble finding work.

Being anti-Zionist was certainly dangerous for Norman Finklestein's career.

I think you're being too kind to Mr. Walt. "Anti-semite" is indeed a loaded charge, but there were more problems with the Walt and Mearsheimer book than you imply. One was a matter of definition: They never defined specifically who was part of the Lobby - or more accurately, they sloppily included pretty much any supporter of Israel in the Lobby by the end of the book. This made their thesis of outside nefarious influence of American policy much more difficult to sustain. Still, were this the only fundamental problem, reasonable people might still disagree. Where Walt and Mearsheimer went off the deep end is in suggesting that the Iraq war would not have occurred but for the Lobby’s influence. With upwards of 4,000 American dead, and 20,000 wounded, that is a case you had better make with hard evidence. This they did not do at all. There was no reference in their book whatever to internal policy discussions of the Bush administrations. Yet substantial evidence already in existence at the time they wrote their book demonstrated fairly conclusively that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were committed to an attack on Iraq virtually from the outset of the Bush administration. There’s none of this in the Walt and Mearsheimer book - virtually their entire evidence consists of pro-Iraq-war statements by (Jewish) neo-cons. It is as if Bush and Cheney did not exist as independent actors. Would Iraq have been invaded in a Gore administration, if exactly the same neo-con arguments had been published? The question pretty much answers itself. (It’s even far from clear Gore would have attacked Afghanistan, though personally I believe he would have done so.) It is blaming the Iraq war on Israel that places Walt and Mearsheimer beyond the Pale.

Ezra I did actually, but both of those are literature. This is an age of television.
To it bluntly: if it isn't on TV, for the vast majority of people, it simply didn't happen.

But to address the substance, it basically breaks down like this: IF you are Jewish, you can criticize Israel if, and only if, you so in a way that criticizes it's tactics. You can not criticize it's intentions, it's actions, or it's goals.

That's not the freedom to criticize Israel in any meaningful way.

Winston: Perhaps the war mongers shouldn't have sold the war on the basis of making Israel safe. Remember all the shouts of "HE GIVES MONEY TO THE FAMILIES OF SUICIDE BOMBERS!!!!!". You can't have those in power making those claims and then shriek like a banshee when someone else points it out.

of course it's bad for careers -- in DC.

Show us those who criticize Israel publicly who get elected to national office, or who get appointed to any of our official foreign policy apparatus, whether State, DOD, or other agencies.

Show us those who are critical who get positions at the World Bank and IMF and UN.

Show us anyone who helps shape official policy who is publicly critical.

Hebrew school tuition??? Huh? You were sleeping through those classes, or playing video games. With Jews like you, the Jewish future is bleak.

Hahahahahahaha. Very nicely done, Ezra.

And this is why I always cringe when I see any lefty blogger link to Jonathan Chait. Calling yourself a Democrat while constantly undermining Democrats can be an effective way to make a living as a professional contrarian, e.g. Mickey Kaus. But it's been a while since the left blogosphere learned to stop taking Kaus seriously, and a similar realization with respect to Chait is long overdue.

It didn't ruin Khalidi's career, but that's a bit of a strange standard for determining whether there is real risk involve. It caused him to be relieved of his duties with the NYC teacher's training program. That's not a terrible blow in itself, but did follow a significant campaign of public vilification against him that prompted a major public official - the head of NYC schools - to take action. Juan Cole is doing just fine for himself, but appears to have been denied a position at Yale he was originally offered because of his views on Israel. There are other examples. To the extent that people generally don't go to jail in America for written or verbal expression, I suppose there's not much risk in any public statements. But Walt's celebrity, by itself, is hardly definitive proof of Chait's contention.

I'm serious about this. Any graphic designers with time on their hands?

Yes, absolutely.

Tell me what you want.

Come to think of it, I've actually done some work on a Juicebox Mafia capo before.

Godwins Corollary:The longer a discussion involving Israel the greater the chances of being labeled antisemetic become.

didn't help Juan Cole either

I hope your are the 100% fruit juice and not that artificial crap. you need to work in Juicy Jews or Jewcy Juice in that logo.

"Tell me what you want."

A bunch of babies with reporter/bloggers accoutrements sipping at the aforementioned beverage is what I'd recommend.

The two words are important to the design, and should be large and in an appropriate font and placement.

"you were sleeping through those classes or playing video games. with jews like you the future is bleak."

perhaps it is better to sleep through much of the traditional jewish education these days.
when a jewish education starts off with a child praying to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....to protect thy people, Israel....what does that signify about all of the children of the world?
that they dont receive the same protection? that they arent included in the prayer for peace?
what about little girls? why do they have to pray to the G-d of the patriarchs?
does that mean that the asian or iranian child next door is not going to be watched over by Hash-m?
these words are spoken and taught all of the time in hebrew schools....and in my opinion, they are not helpful in assisting jewish children to feel a part of a world in which all people are sacred, and no-one prays to a different or a lesser god.
maybe we wouldnt be having so many problems if hebrew schools opened prayers up to include all people...all as chosen.
that is why it was so saddening and discordant to hear rick warren give a prayer for some, and not for all.
it is a shame, in this day and age.
this kind of education does a child growing up in the world of today, no favors.
in my opinion.
hebrew schools should be collecting money and books and blankets for the children in gaza.
when one child suffers, all children suffer. children should be taught that in hebrew school.
that silence is complicity.
if they cant be taught this, then they are better off sleeping or playing video games.
in my opinion.

OK. I won't call you an anti-Semite, Ezra. Just dumb. And not the student of history you ought to be after your Hebrew school education.

Halli Casser-Jayne
http://www.thecjpoliticalreport.com

The term was cheapened by overuse. In this way, TNR has actually made it much safer to speak critically about Israel, and for that, I guess I applaud them, and look forward to our continuing and increasingly productive dialogue.

Hit 'em where it hurts, Ezra! They have no conception they harm they're causing Israel in the long run.

"with jews like you, the future is bleak."

and why would that be?
is it anti-american and anti-jewish to speak out and dissent when we feel something is wrong?
isnt speaking out for social justice and humanity and tikkun olam, the lesson we were supposed to have learned from history and the study of Torah?
ISNT ONE OF THE IMPORTANT LESSONS OF JUDAISM, THAT WE ARE OUR BROTHER'S AND SISTER'S KEEPER?

righteous human beings ascend to the ethical qualities of the ten sephirot by doing righteous actions.

chesed~~~lovingkindness,mercy
rachamim~~~compassion

You are saying that it is an act of heroism, and a rare one at that, to attack Israel? Isn't it rather common to attack Israel, in the UN, throughout Europe and by its neighbors? If you think Israel is a fascist, apartheid state, as these postings tirelessly state, say it; but don't claim bravery in doing so, or loneliness. That's just way off.

As mentioned above, Norm Finkelstein would likely take issue with Ezra's claim. Lots of people have suffered humiliating professional attacks and personal degradation when they've criticized Israel; in a sense, they've made the degree of freedom we have to criticize Israeli policy possible.

As Chomsky has pointed out, criticizing "The Israel Lobby's" thesis: the Israeli lobby wouldn't stand a chance at achieving its aims if the U.S. military and political establishment didn't totally agree with its agenda.

Then again, Ezra's right, in a sense. We live in a free society. There are no death squads roaming the streets or legal restrictions on our speech. To say it requires "courage" on the part of some blogger or academic to criticize Israel is a grave insult to dissidents all over the world who continue to struggle and suffer and die to expand the sphere of freedom.

The future of Judaism is bleak with Jews like Ezra, because Israel is a part of Judaism. Many places in the liturgy refer to Israel (next year in Jerusalem) and its survival as the Jewish state has religious importance. You cannot be a good Jew and be opposed to the survival of Israel, as is the case with Mr. Klein.

The future of American democracy is bleak when after watching several days of atrocious destruction in Gaza, overwhelming majorities in Congress and Senate vote for a fawning gesture of support for Israel. I hope and pray that George Mitchell is successful: it would put AIPAC out of business, and American politics would not be such a nauseating spectacle.

"you cannot be a good Jew and be opposed to the survival of Israel, as is the case with Mr. Klein."

just another perspective...
do you believe that the current actions in gaza are helping Israel or the soul and unity of jewish people?
can you honestly look at what has occurred in gaza, and not feel a sense of shame over the deaths and suffering there?
even if you have no pity, they are human beings.
do you let a child tear the wings off of a butterfly just for fun?
living things are living things.
all human beings are still human.
what happens to a human being when they become the face of the enemy?
or to a society?
a society cannot be healthy within itself when it causes this suffering to another group of people. it weighs on sanity and conscience and the souls of people.
that is the struggle that many jewish people are dealing with now.
this is not a simple thing.

I have to wonder how long a reputation for youth (as in being part of the Juicebox Mafia) lasts.

jacqueline,

I think you'd feel at home with Reconstructionist Judaism.

Winston,
First, Walt and Mearsheimer do not blame "Israel" for the Iraq war. The assign a great deal of blame to a highly influential lobby which has shaped U.S. mid-east policy in general. Second, they are quite clear that the Israel lobby has a particular set of ideological boundaries - they are sympathetic to Likudnik politics, they filter every development in the mid-east through a narrow vision of ensuring complete freedom of action for Israel without allowing it to suffer any negative consequences, they automatically assume Israel's actions are morally justified, etc. - and a particularly definite cast of characters not all of whom, importantly, are Jewish. Third, without the neoconservative movement and, especially, PNAC (a definite component of the Lobby) there would have been no war, simple as that. That is the claim and I think it's largely justified.

That's about the same thing that sexists say when women point out sexism.

First, Walt and Mearsheimer do not blame "Israel" for the Iraq war. The assign a great deal of blame to a highly influential lobby which has shaped U.S. mid-east policy in general.

Er, somehow, you don't address the fact that Chimp's crew was ready to attack Iraq on Day One and didn't need the lobby to tell them what to do. Why is that? Why didn't you address the whole of the previous comment?

There is only suffering in Gaza? Wake up and smell the coffee. They have been using the Israeli withdrawal of 2005 (hey, remember that?) as an occasion to build tunnels, smuggle arms, and rain rockets on Israel, NOT to build a civil society and infrastructure that would help their own people. They have thus given a complete disincentive to the Israelis to be more forthcoming. This shows that they are not interested in getting what they say they want -- a peaceful, prospering state. Because if that's what they wanted, they would already have it. The Israelis would love to turn over these lands, if the price were not their own destruction. And yes, I say the future of Judaism itself is bleak if young Jews like Ezra abound. Judaism is not, and has never been, just an ethical preaching. You can go to the Unitarian church if that is what you want. In fact, I would enjoy seeing anti-Israel young Jews convert to Unitarianism, and ASAP.

Count the bodies. Thousands of civilians murdered by the IDF in Gaza. More than the number civilian Israels killed in Israel over its entire *existence*.

Yeah, the modern government of Israel is a murderous, apartheid state. Everyone who isn't totally biased knows it.

Of course, many serious religious Jews consider the modern state of Israel an error -- it was not formed in accordance with the prophecies, and so it is not the restored Israel of prophecy. The anti-Zionist movement waits for the true, religious Israel, not the secular, socialist, apartheid state founded by Irgun terrorists.

The future of Judaism would be bleak if it were attached to the bigoted government of a failed state -- a state making the same errors which, according to much Jewish tradition, led Biblical Israel to be destroyed.

Luckily most people, Jewish or not, know better than "Anonymous".

However....

The disgusting people such as those at TNR and the ADL who call everyone who opposes the apartheid government in Jerusalem "anti-Semitic" -- even if they are in fact Israeli Jews! -- are really doing something very dangerous and evil. They are encouraging people to identify Judaism with the mass-murdering, war-crime-committing, apartheid-policy Israeli government. That's a big lie, a false identification, and an identification on the order of "Jews are moneylenders". It's the sort of thing which causes *actual* anti-Semitism. These people are making pogroms more likely, and they don't even realize it.

Forgive Chait -- he knows not what he does.

@jacqueline

To answer your question. No shame whatsoever. I feel a lot of pity for the civilians killed in the war (other than those who voted for Hamas). The same pity I feel for the Japanese, German, and Italian civilians killed in WWII (other than those who voted for the Axis governments).

The civilians in Gaza are dead because the democratically elected government of Gaza (Hamas) chose to go to attack Israeli civilians and chose to use their own civilians as human shields, not because of Israel.

If Hamas wanted to protect Gazan civilians, they would come out and fight away from the civilians, not hide behind them.

What gets me is just how crazy the Palestinians are. Fatah didn't attack Israel and the West Bank didn't get attacked. Hamas attacked Israel and Gaza got stomped. Any rational person would say "maybe firing thousands of rockets and mortars into Israel until they got so fed up they stomped us was a bad idea". The Palestinians are saying "yay Hamas".

@jacqueline

To answer your question. No shame whatsoever. I feel a lot of pity for the civilians killed in the war (other than those who voted for Hamas). The same pity I feel for the Japanese, German, and Italian civilians killed in WWII (other than those who voted for the Axis governments).

The civilians in Gaza are dead because the democratically elected government of Gaza (Hamas) chose to go to attack Israeli civilians and chose to use their own civilians as human shields, not because of Israel.

If Hamas wanted to protect Gazan civilians, they would come out and fight away from the civilians, not hide behind them.

What gets me is just how crazy the Palestinians are. Fatah didn't attack Israel and the West Bank didn't get attacked. Hamas attacked Israel and Gaza got stomped. Any rational person would say "maybe firing thousands of rockets and mortars into Israel until they got so fed up they stomped us was a bad idea". The Palestinians are saying "yay Hamas".

didn't help Juan Cole either

I hope your are the 100% fruit juice and not that artificial crap. you need to work in Juicy Jews or Jewcy Juice in that logo.

Posted by: maybe | January 23, 2009 3:34 PM
That take on Juice'street' derogation was sorta like what I first thought.

Forgot attribution, sorry

didn't help Juan Cole either[...] I hope your are the 100% fruit juice and not that artificial crap. you need to work in Juicy Jews or Jewcy Juice in that logo. Posted by: maybe | January 23, 2009 3:34 PM

That take on Juice-'street' derogation was sorta like what I first thought.

@ Jason

Read this.

Few points for uninitiated (there are many here among the commenters):

O Fatah was a corrupted party hence they were booted out by Palestinians.

O Hamas was a democratically elected by Palestinians because they were tired of Mahmood Abbas's corruption.

O June 2008 Hamas and Israel came into an agreement: ceasefire.

O On November 4th, Israel decides to break this truce and kill Hamas officials.

O Hamas showed a lot of restraint but eventually had to respond to Israel's aggressions.

O Israel attacks Gazans and kills in excess of 1500 innocent Palestinians. Israel commits numerous documented war crimes.

O As we speak, at the UN, war crimes charges are being considered for Olmert, Livni and Barack.

Cheers,

Where are you writing this from, Farid? A tunnel?

Laptop Batteries
Laptop Batteries discount laptop battery

Are you want to own the cheapest Apple and Iphone?
Iphone Accessor

Laptop Batteries
Laptop Batteries discount laptop battery

everybody wants to be more fashion,but thats not easy to join,you most have the fashion world view first,then you could read the fashion news,Magazines and so on. through these you can be the fashion man.

Fitch store in general abercrombie and fitch , everything a good matrimony before marriage have nothing to retain the preceding "female mad batch - abercrombie" part of the two is the first home in new york city a horde promotion sportswear for men and it is a successful lawyer, that is, ezra fitch.Ezra fitch in a charge over a very intricate to read from the abercrombie is obstinate to read and long abercrombie & fitch. He's also very good brand hollister, including abercrombie mens and abercrombie womens, abercrombie hollister, Ruehl No.925. Has become a fashionable personage's first choice, abercrombie outlet is all over the world, of course, is also expected to 2009 New Arrivals.

Good post! Thanks for your information!

ed hardy clothing