Wonderful news -- and, yes, I also doubt this was planned all along.

Meanwhile, I can't wait for the sound of heads exploding on the religious right -- that will make my day even more than this good news!

That's great news to wake up to. Think I might make it down to the kick off now.

hurray!!!!!!!
yippeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

we must keep speaking out!
* * * * * * *

I'm sure it wasn't planned, as I'm sure their saying it was is, among other things, a way to take the rather icky image of Robinson as "afterthought token" down to whatever extent possible.

All of this fuss could have been avoided by just not entangling religion with the inauguration.

I can assure Ron that choosing to "not entangle religion with the inauguration" by forgoing any invocations, prayers or other religious items from the ceremony would NOT have prevented a fuss. It would have been a different fuss and one Ron and others apparently believe is worth having, but such a change from (recent?) tradition wouldn't have passed unnoticed or unprotested.

All these invocations and prayer services reflect the reality that America has this unusual but unacknowledged "civil religion" that suddenly appears out of nowhere whenever we have a graduation ceremony or inauguration. There are all these ceremonies (the "baccalaurate service", the inaugural prayer service, etc.) that aren't written down anywhere in any formal book of ceremonies that we are taught about but nevertheless appear at big events.

It's all well and good when the president, as they usually are, is a quasi-non-specific protestant, but eventually we're going to have a president who's non-Christian or even a rather religious Catholic, and participating in these ceremonies is going to conflict with the religious sensibilities of the president himself. I have to wonder what the outcry will be like: who, exactly, is the constituency for these invocations and prayer services?

You blathering idiots who got all huffy puffy over Rick Warren giving a simple prayer now look like total fools.

And you, Ezra, and your "doubts" are about as legit as your hyperventilating over Rick Warren, and how you completely ignored the guy giving the post-inaugural prayer.

Fools. If Obama had picked this guy first, the Right would have went nuts. Instead, he had Warren, and the Left went nuts. For Obama, always gonna be better to watch the Left go crazy and then work from the Right to deal with them. Get used to it.

Freaking. Foolish. Idiots.

Wow - seven replies into a post about a gay man, and Fred El Valhomohater hasn't chimed in yet?

This is, incidentally, why it's useful for progressives to criticize the president. Politicians respond to incentives. To noise. To anger

Great news. But now the transition has mortally offended homophobe Black African Episcopalians. Will it invite Archbishop Peter Akinola of Nigeria to soothe that constituency? The invocation prayers could get a bit long.

Oh come on. I'm not a big fan of President-Elect Obaman, but Rev. Dr. Lowery, a lion of the civil rights movement who is an outspoken supporter of gay marriage and gay rights, has been on the bill delivering the benediction since Dec. 17th.

Wasn't the Robinson decision made before the New Year? My uncle and I were discussing his participation on January 1st.

I continue to be struck by the number of people -- of all political stripes -- who think Warren can be "balanced" by someone who is in favor of same-sex marriage.

Warren's opinions about gay people are irrelevant. What counts is that he actively participated in removing the civil rights of an unpopular minority. Bishop Robinson would qualify as "balance" only if he were fresh off a campaign to shutter the Baptist mega-churches of Vermont (though I doubt Vermonters are foolish enough to even have mega-churches).

Substitute "Vermont" with "New Hampshire" in that last post.

: )

BobN:

We're too few, and fractious, and cold, to have megachurches up here.

What counts is that he actively participated in removing the civil rights of an unpopular minority.

??

This commenter acts as if this was a long-standing and accepted social decision.

It wasn't.

If a judge had decided that there was no right for a woman to choose, and a short while voters overturned that decision by referendum, should we all lament that the unborn's civil rights were taken by whoever spearheaded the initiative?

He's an idiot.

So....help me here?

Would it "fair and balanced" to have a slaveholder give the invocation...so long as he had his slave with him to add a few words?

Someone who wants to take away the rights of others is not "balanced" by having somebody along who rights have been taken away. The fact that so many seem pleased with this arrangement speaks to the atrophy of the American mind.

If it was the plan all along, the Obama administration sure did a good job keeping the secret.

You mean like they've done on **EVERYTHING** since Day One? Google "Gene Robinson obama" and you'll see that this doesn't come out of the blue, or because some bloggers gave Warren so much more credit than Lowry.

Jeez. Get over yourself.

Someone who wants to take away the rights of others...

This misbelief is the real problem. Does S Brennan feel the same way about a person's 'right' to deal drugs, do drugs, engage in polygamy or any other social rule arrived at by a democratic process?

When do people get to decide for themselves how they wish to be governed?

How 'bout the people's rights?

You blathering idiots who got all huffy puffy over Rick Warren giving a simple prayer now look like total fools.

Actually, we look pretty vindicated!
Thanks for your concern, though.

The emerging pattern seems to be that anything Obama does is defended on the grounds that it's a clever tactical maneuver, or that Obama is going to defeat the right by spitting on the left. But even if these are tactical maneuvers, tactics are not self-justifying. If having Rick Warren at the inauguration helps solidify Obama's credentials with this or that group, that is not as important as the basic fact that Rick Warren is a bigot and has no legitimate place at the ceremony.

We all have to let go of the idea that Obama is going to promote left-wing principles by working with the right-wing. He isn't a left-winger and what we are going to get from his cooperation with the right-wing is more right-wing policies.

Really, the only way to justify Obama shafting this or that leftish group in order to promote some other allegedly more important goal is by arguing that the shafted group isn't important to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, none of these things are negotiable -- not gay rights, not universal health care, not social insurance, not ending the war, not war crimes prosecutions, nothing. Leftists are not going to get what they want by keeping hands off of Obama and pretending he's such a genius that everything he does is good even when it's bad. We are going to have to fight. Again. As usual. With a Democrat in office. Oh well.

No Anonymous, you look like overreacting fools.

If the gay marriage movement had put as much effort into engaging with California voters as they did in their hysteria over Rick Warren giving a prayer that had nothing to do with gay marriage, then gay people would be getting married legally today on the West coast.

Can we please get our priorities straight? Claiming victory over Gene Robinson sounds totally hollow when no one claimed any victory over Dr. Joseph Lowery speaking along with Warren. Instead, it was all "Warren has to go" - but now somehow there is victory?

Keep moving the goalposts on yourself to make yourselves feel better, but if what you wanted was "no Warren" you still don't have that. And if what you wanted was something like equal time, you had that all along with Lowery. So what was the complaint about to begin with?

Oh yeah, anger at Prop 8 getting taken out on black people and Barack Obama. What a waste of time and energy that was.

Oh yeah, anger at Prop 8 getting taken out on black people and Barack Obama. What a waste of time and energy that was.
Posted by: The Freakness | January 12, 2009 4:23 PM

The stats guys proved pretty conclusively that it wasn't black people but mean old people that put Prop 8 into the win column.
Maybe that's what you meant, but just sayin'.

Hairy Reed,

Technically, TECHNICALLY, you are right. Old people were worse than black people on Prop 8. It still doesn't hide the fact that black people were for Prop 8 at a higher percentage than whites or hispanics.

I know just saying that pushed me dangerously towards the edge of racism.

So what was the complaint about to begin with?

Actually, what is yours? That gay people dare to voice opposition to Obama's inviting a bigot to speak at his inauguration? Well boo-hoo.

Not sure how this is your battle, or are you just concern trolling?

We got Obama to blink long before this, or did you not notice the Warren website scrubbing. LOL. And you'll still hear plenty of booing over Warren at the inauguration too. The fighting ends when the rights are equal. Get used to it.

Mark wins the thread.

We are going to have to fight. Again. As usual. With a Democrat in office. Oh well.

Yes, Mark wins the thread.

And as someone who donated to and volunteered for Obama, I have a very, very heavy heart that will be weightier by orders of magnitude if our new President doesn't go after all the war criminals, from the top down.

Right now I need to breathe.

This is, incidentally, why it's useful for progressives to criticize the president. Politicians respond to incentives. To noise. To anger.

Ya..but...I just wanted a pony.

The idea that this Rick Warren snit has somehow worked out well for progressives is ridiculous. Obama hasn't changed anything, and instead a whole lot of fence-sitters that might be sympathetic to the gay marriage movement have watches as the Left had a hissy fit over someone being allowed to give a simple prayer.

If losing the middle is what is important right now, by all means celebrate the "victory." But if you really want to have real progress, engagement is necessary. The Rick Warren hysteria was the opposite of this, and has done a lot of harm to those who want to see gay marriage as a reality, not just a rallying cry.

The Rick Warren hysteria was the opposite of this, and has done a lot of harm to those who want to see gay marriage as a reality, not just a rallying cry.

Evidence of the befores and afters please. What was so great before that has been lost/"harmed?"

more concern trolling
behave yourselves and we'll GIVE you your rights...sure.

are you kidding, this is turning into what seems to be the classic Obama play - side with the opposition, take heat from his own side, take steps to mollify his own side, opposition can't get up much wind in their sails to protest. see also: stimulus package.

I'm kind of in awe actually.

Obama has not changed anything?

Previously, Obama backpeddled through surrogages on DADT.

This week, unprovoked, Obama's Press Sec. stated that Obama would be seeking to repeal DADT.

No change?

Really?

This is politics. I know people like to spin, spin around. But , come on. Clearly he's feeling the heat of not just gays, but the village press core when men like Richard Cohen says, "I am not with you on this."

At least you guys don't have AIPAC to deal with!!! *We* should be so lucky...

Boycott Motorola, the "great enabler" of the Israeli Occupation

This is pretty brazenly accusing whoever this source is of outright lying. Is that really Ezra's position? Does he have any evidence?

The way that Anonymous throws out "concern troll" trying to silence people is exactly the kind of obnoxious hyperbole that made the Rick Warren snit embarrassing and counterproductive. It's the kind of behavior that never saw the irony in comparing Warren to a Nazi while trying to silence him from saying a simple, uncontroversial prayer.

What Anonymous doesn't get is that it isn't about being right. It's about getting what you want. It's about moving the country forward.

The "behave yourself and we'll give you your rights...sure" attitude is just romper room stuff. Out in the real world, people are trying to create a bigger tent, not kick people out.

If all you want is to piss righteousness in people's faces, why on earth do you care about a social rite like marriage?

The real grown ups realize that the gay community is only going to get full marriage rights when they're willing to make amends with the very people who have hurt them and denied them their rights and humanity in the past. Because those very people are the ones who votes are needed. Those are people like Rick Warren. Those are people that have watched this whole escapade and lost a little respect for the seriousness of the cause.

One thing I have learned about Obama is he is always 2-3 chess steps ahead on any issue.
He wants to bring everyone to the table. In this case he knew both Warren and Robinson would bring a firestorm from the opposite side.
Announcing them together might have worked but neither side might have felt any satisfaction. With Warren first the evangelicals had their moment of triumph, but now they cannot erupt over Robinson who might otherwise have been a lightening rod. Furthermore Obama will have more latitude now to do things or make appointments seeming to favor the GLBT community. For this freedom of action it just might have been worth the short term anger his actions caused.

The real grown ups realize that the gay community is only going to get full marriage rights when they're willing to make amends with the very people who have hurt them and denied them their rights and humanity in the past.

The logic here astounds. Gay people have the responsibility to "make amends" with those who have "hurt them." Um, that's not how making amends goes. Sorry.

The real grownups remember that the AIDS fight of the 80's and know that real change came from ACTUP more than it did the Log Cabin Club.

What Anonymous doesn't get is that it isn't about being right. It's about getting what you want. It's about moving the country forward.

You've yet to illustrate how remaining silent on Warren "moves the country forward." You just keep repeating "ssshhhh," in different guises. This Anonymous sees results from the Warren protests as evidenced in Obama's reaction here.

that made the Rick Warren snit embarrassing and counterproductive.

Perhaps for Obama/Warren - both forced to backpedal; for women and the LGBT community not so much.

I know just saying that pushed me dangerously towards the edge of racism.

Yes, it's true. 'Racism' has changed from making predudiced decisions base upon one's race to anything that would not shine a favorable light on a minority, regardless if it's true or not.

You transgressed when you didn't understand that the truth is now sometimes racist.

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