WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF TEXAS SECEDED?
After Texas Governor Rick Perry fired up a Tea Party audience by musing about secession as a response to federal tax rates, I spent most of the day idly considering what it would look like for America if Texas seceded from the union. More trains! Universal health care! An end to an important hybrid food culture! Less bragging from Kriston Capps! But Annie Lowrey at Foreign Policy took it the opposite way and considered the likely fate of Texas:
It would be the world's thirteenth largest economy -- bigger than South Korea, Sweden, and Saudi Arabia. But its worth would crater precipitously, after NAFTA rejected it and the United States slapped it with an embargo that would make Cuba look like a free-trade zone. Indeed, Texas would quick become the next North Korea, relying on foreign aid due to its insistence on relying on itself.
On the foreign policy front, a seceded Texas would suffer for deserting the world superpower. Obama wouldn't look kindly on secessionists, and would send in the military to tamp down rebellion. If Texas miraculously managed to hold its borders, Obama would not establish relations with the country -- though he might send a special rapporteur. (We nominate Kinky Friedman.)
So, Texas would need to court Mexico and Central American nations as a trading partners and protectors. Those very nations would also pose a host of problems for Texas. President Perry might find friends in anti-U.S. nations like Venezuela and Cuba, but their socialist politics would rankle the libertarian nation.
And Texas would become a conduit for drugs moving north to the United States from Mexico, maybe even becoming a narco-state. It would need to invest heavily in its own military and policing force to stop drug violence within its borders -- taking away valuable resources from, oh, feeding its people, fending off U.S. border incursions, and improving its standing in the world.
In short: the state of Texas would rapidly become direly impoverished, would need to be heavily armed, and would be wracked with existential domestic and foreign policy threats. It would probably make our failed states list in short order. Probably better to pay the damn taxes.
To be fair to Texas, federal taxes are actually a fairly bad deal for them: According to The Tax Foundation's 2005 calculations, the Lone Star State only gets 94 cents in federal spending for every dollar paid in taxes.
Update: Chuck Norris stands ready to serve as President of the Republic of Texas. Seriously.
Photo used under a CC license from LadyBugBkt.
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COMMENTS (82)
We'd have to split Dallas in half...
Posted by: anonymous | April 16, 2009 2:50 PM
Texas should go! Why not act upon this and boot them out give a 30 day notice. Let all of those that do not want or like the current "CHANGES" being done move to TEXAS. Let them do to TEXAS what they have done to the UNITED STATES!Compassionate Conservative Republican policies have almost ruined this country. Let us see how long it will take for those same policies to destroy Texas!
Posted by: RayS | April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
yeah, and they might also lose the George W. Bush Presidential Library! My main concern, however, with the secession issue involves the question as to what would happen to Willie Nelson.
Posted by: winer | April 16, 2009 3:05 PM
Don't forget, too, that they'd probably be facing constant Unionist insurgencies trying to overthrow the Perry regime and return Texas to the US (no doubt funded by the US government as well). They'd also probably have a very difficult time getting loans at anything other than extortionary interest rates.
Posted by: Brett | April 16, 2009 3:11 PM
Just because there are a few vocal jerks like Perry who like to get people riled up with talk about Texas secession, I think it's pretty far off from passing any kind of vote. A solid percentage of us are pro US, pro Obama, etc. I already have to listen to the "if you don't like it, you can just leave" crap from the right wingers here and now I feel like I'm getting getting it from the progressive side up north, as well. Makes me nervous and uncomfortable. It's like my parents are getting divorced.
Please don't kick Texas out. I like my US passport.
Posted by: Discovery | April 16, 2009 3:14 PM
To be fair to Texas, federal taxes are actually a fairly bad deal for them: According to The Tax Foundation's 2005 calculations, the Lone Star State only gets 94 cents in federal spending for every dollar paid in taxes
Federal taxes are a far worse deal for a bunch of other non-Confederacy states like NJ,NY,CT which get much less return than Texas. Maybe we should secede - and take our money with us. I wonder what these stupid f*cks in TX, SC, AK would say when they have no FEMA, Border Patrol, military bases, Medicare, etc.
Posted by: CParis | April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
Been thinkin' a long time about how to squeeze Texas out in to the Gulf, but it's SO geographically embedded!
And we'd lose all the lovely voices from beyond that ugly regressive Texas pale like my beloved Amanda, the Anne Rices and the Molly Ivins'.
THAT would be sad.
And the Gulf's already pretty polluted, so..
Posted by: has_te | April 16, 2009 3:30 PM
To be fair to Texas, federal taxes are actually a fairly bad deal for them: According to The Tax Foundation's 2005 calculations, the Lone Star State only gets 94 cents in federal spending for every dollar paid in taxes.
No, that's not a fairly bad deal -- that's a mildly bad deal. We here in California only get 78 cents back on every dollar, so I'm not going to really have much sympathy for Texas.
New Jersey, on the other hand -- I'll have sympathy for them. They only get 61 cents back per dollar -- plus everyone there has to live in New Jersey.
Posted by: Reality Czech | April 16, 2009 3:48 PM
"We'd have to split Dallas in half..."
Yeah, that would be weird. The north part of Dallas would probably split off to form the north part of the newly created Tea Bag State. The part of Dallas south of 635, would be like W. Berlin. Can we get an airlift?
Posted by: Bob Oso | April 16, 2009 3:58 PM
Bob Oso you read my mind - I was thinking we'd have to enclave Austin as a holdout part of the Union
Posted by: Ross Hunter | April 16, 2009 4:18 PM
Reality Czech, I have the marvelous privilege of living in both California and New Jersey...and you didn't even mention that NJ has among the highest overall state taxes, though California is only in the middle of the pack (17th).
What was I thinking??? Why I am I financing Alabama and Alaska?
Posted by: PQuincy | April 16, 2009 4:19 PM
The US has become, like Citicorp, BOA, and JP Morgan, too big to fail (and, the corollary, probably too big to exist.
I'd be happy to have the 30%ers all aggregated together outside the USA. Texas is a reasonable choice to do the political/ethnic/religious cleansing. They could just add a wingnut pictoral to the Lone Star in their flag.
It would be a long border though. Just chop off the Interstates at the border, move the military bases to Nevada, New Mexico and whatever.
I would fret about the left-behind Dems/Indep./Libs/Progressives. We could offer paid immigration (after checking their voting registration).
Having Texas on the US southern border would be sort of S and N Korea, in reverse. Watching the battle to become the Dear Leader in indy TX would be fun enough to justify the hassle.
P.S. GW Bush could have his third and fourth term, if that's an inducement.
The TX GOP should consult with Ukraine, Georgia and the other former Soviet Republics to get some hints on how great it is to be independent.
Posted by: JimPortlandOR | April 16, 2009 4:19 PM
Determining whether federal taxation is a "good deal" or a "bad deal" based on whether a state gets back more or less money than it pays out in taxes is crazy. We have a national (global, really) economy, and the wealth in the donor states is contingent on useful things being done outside of the state. The texas oil industry, for instance, relies heavily on the federal government spending money on the interstate highway system in other states, both for transport of Texas fuel and for creating the demand for it. It's in the best interest of the donor states that their taxes be spent where it's smart for the country as a whole.
Posted by: Galen | April 16, 2009 4:22 PM
And seriously, although the FAQ at texassecede.com tries to twist the logic to show that Texas had a right to secede from the Union during the Civil War, this is not the case.
I remember reading the US Supreme Court decision (Texas v. White) long ago that demonstrated that none of the states had ever left the Union, because such a thing is not possible simply by declaration of a state.
The Constitution makes us a perpetual union. The only way to leave is by specifically amending the Constitution to allow this. And one state can't amend it, it would take the majority agreement of the the nation.
Which, given the last eight years, might not be hard to come by...
Posted by: Ross Hunter | April 16, 2009 4:25 PM
Ouch.
Not all Texans are crazy right wingers desperate to avoid taxes. And even though I am a raging lib, I don't want to leave this fine state, so no thanks on the airlift and amnesty.
perry is just an idiot and worried about reelection. Also, CParis, last time I checked the confederacy no longer existed... sorry. Besides, all southern states signed away any right to leave the union at the end of the civil war, so that little treaty means all this crazy talk has no chance of coming to fruition, even if by some chance all the crazies come out of the woodworks and "vote" for secession.
So please, stop making horrifying generalities and stereotypes about Texans. Not only are we politically diverse, but we also do a lot for our nation's economy as a whole.
Thanks, yall.
Posted by: proud Texan | April 16, 2009 4:26 PM
We are already heavily armed, plus we would get to keep the 2nd Armored Division at Fort Hood. We have a long history in this state of support for treason, rebellion, and secession.
Posted by: Max E. Edison | April 16, 2009 4:26 PM
Tejas secedes? Party at my place!
Posted by: Marti Perez | April 16, 2009 4:35 PM
If all the liberals would leave, Texas would be infinitely better off.
Thanks.
Posted by: Randy | April 16, 2009 4:40 PM
The prospect.org could very well be the funniest website on the internet. Unfortunately the words"Liberal" and "Intelligence" are mutually exclusive.
Posted by: Moss | April 16, 2009 4:43 PM
Annie Lowrey's tea leaf readings are just that.
More likely, Texas would be a major exporter of oil and coal which it has plenty of both as well as a vibrant high-tech sector and lots of agriculture.
I doubt is Texas would be as bad off as Annie thinks it would be.
Posted by: El Viajero | April 16, 2009 4:51 PM
Don't worry, America-loving Texans. We all are only joking/theorizing. We know that not only is Texas unable to leave the Union, but even if you were to hold an up-and-down vote in Texas, the state would stay (most conservatives in Texas are sensible enough about what would happen if the state tried to leave, even before you get into good ol' genuine American patriotism).
That said, I think Texas leaving would create a domino effect, in the theoretical example in which Texas did try leaving. At this point, Texas is the backbone of congressional power for the Republican party. Imagine if we, by Constitutional rule, reallocated the 435 representatives by population to the remaining 49 states, also thereby redrawing the electoral college as well.
Given the current climate, that swings the balance of power even further away from Republican-dominated states. Considering that they're already teetering on the edge of inconsequence, Texas' leaving will either convince heavily Republican states to leave (I could see Utah following suit easily enough), or risk becoming politically impotent.
I think you'd have to account for at least four other states joining Texas out of fear, honestly.
Posted by: 32_Footsteps | April 16, 2009 4:51 PM
Annie Lowrey's tea leaf readings are just that.
More likely, Texas would be a major exporter of oil and coal which it has plenty of both as well as a vibrant high-tech sector and lots of agriculture.
I doubt is Texas would be as bad off as Annie thinks it would be.
Posted by: El Viajero | April 16, 2009 4:52 PM
Fine, give us back our stim money first. Any institutions that got TARP money can return that. We'll pull out all federal employees and equipment. We'll have to move that wall to the border states. Any cross border B2B relationships will have to wait till we lift the embargo. When Spain comes for GWB, we don't want to hear any crying from you feriners.
What? You really didn't mean it? Too late!
Posted by: Fr33d0m | April 16, 2009 4:53 PM
I think it would be a much more amicable divorce than the picture Lowery paints. It'd be more like the Velvet Revolution, where the Slovaks wanted to take their agrarians, tank factories, and leave the snooty Bohemians. The Czechs said "fine, we'll keep Praha." The Slovaks wound up with a premier with a third grade education, and the nice parts of Bratislava got bought up by the Viennese. D'oh! Be careful what you wish for. Texas would be taken over by a coalition of Mexican drug cartels and local gun-runners and would be a failed state 'afore ye knew it. There'd be pirates in the Gulf soon enough. Remember the Alamo, maties!
Posted by: John I | April 16, 2009 4:53 PM
I'm inclined to give up more than Texas...
Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2009 5:51 PM
Could someone tell Chuck Norris the phrase is "tongue in cheek" not "tongue-n-cheek"? If he's running for President of Texas, he might want to get that straightened out. I'm just saying...
Posted by: David | April 16, 2009 5:52 PM
Only Presidents in my lifetime who have started wars are from Texas.
I say, if they don't secede, how can we kick them out?
Posted by: Mark T | April 16, 2009 5:54 PM
Texas may have lost out in terms of federal commitments through the regular budgeting process, but in terms of gifts through the tax code, and gifts to the energy industry -- Texas has been rewarded many times over.
Given that Texas has given the U.S. two of its most inept presidents, I say we let 'em go on the condition of repayment of the George W. Bush federal debt.
$5 trillion upfront, plus any taxes due for 2009-2010. They'll also have to buy their nukes from North Korea, which is something that George W.'s administration has made exponentially easier for outsiders to do.
I also propose a new bumper sticker for the upper 49 that says "Messed with Texas"; the picture would include an off-set image of the state with several mushroom clouds exploding all-around it.
Posted by: Franklin | April 16, 2009 6:35 PM
Interesting Franklin. Guess Georgia should be gone too for providing the most unbelievably inept "president" in Jimmy Carter this country has ever seen or probably ever will see. (Current potus excluded)
Posted by: Frankie | April 16, 2009 7:10 PM
this has me thinking,, if the liberals hate the idea,, it must be an idea worth considering.
Posted by: mike | April 16, 2009 7:50 PM
Oh please God -- let Texas go -- and invite the rest of the old Confederacy to join them. I cannot imagine how sweet political life in the U.S. would become.
Posted by: Sir Charles | April 16, 2009 9:04 PM
The real effect of Texas seceeding would be the trigger of like minded states following suit. Then those in the huge Blue cities would simply have to rely on thier politics for something to eat.The image simply brings a smile to my heart.
Posted by: RH | April 16, 2009 9:37 PM
I know that I, and all freedom loving Americans would immediately immigrate to the Republic of Texas and would gladly join her armed forces to resist the new Democratic People's Republic of the North America. A free Texas would be the Third American Revolution. The first succeeded but has lost its way. The second failed (The War for Southern Independence)but the third just might get it right.
Posted by: fredt | April 16, 2009 9:42 PM
Sweet -- something liberals and conservatives can agree on! Get on with it, Texas secessionists!
Posted by: Tom | April 16, 2009 9:59 PM
What makes you think Texas would stand alone?
Texas and Montana are leading this fight. If things got bad enough for them to secede, there are a string of solid red states between them that could follow: Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas for starters. This neatly cuts the lower 48 right down the middle.
Secessions would certainly push the South into again forming its own country that could align with the new one.
Oil-rich Alaska would certainly go off on its own or could join the new nation along with Canada's western provinces, who are also fed up with socialists to the east. They were on the verge of a breakup a decade ago.
Poverty stricken? You're talking about huge oil reserves and the bread basket to the world. Embargo from Washington? Oh, please...WE surround YOU. And your military will be minus a LOT of conservative real American soldiers.
Ever hear the story of the guy who walks into the doctor's office with a frog on his head? The doc asks his what he needs and the frog says "Doc, I need you cut this wart of my @***".
The time has come.
Posted by: J in KC | April 16, 2009 10:22 PM
Obama would be even stupider than I imagine were he to authorize an invasion of the Republic of Texas. The most likely outcome would be that the troops involved would drive over the border, rip the Stars and Stripes patch off of their sleeves, and replace it with the Lone Star. Any officers stupid enough to order their troops to fire on Texans would be likely to be fragged immediately.
If Louisiana and Mississippi join Texas, then the new nation would have a stranglehold over all commerce traversing the Mississippi River. The tariff revenue would be substantial.
The true danger in this scenario is that while we're involved with internal troubles, Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea would run riot. It would be World War III as all of the pent-up conflicts currently suppressed by the Pax Americana flare up. Say goodbye to Georgia, Ukraine, Taiwan, Iraq, and South Korea. Possibly Israel as well, although any such attempt would likely result in some new skating rinks where Arab capitals once stood. Not pretty, by any measure.
Posted by: mwl | April 16, 2009 10:57 PM
Let's start building that wall around Texas right away.
Posted by: ab | April 16, 2009 11:19 PM
I happen to be a Texan that is extremely proud to be an American. To read that someone wants to NUKE me because of where I live is unbelievably cruel. I thought I was a fellow American? Aren't there enough problems in the world without this??? This is heart breaking......
Posted by: Rebecca | April 16, 2009 11:24 PM
I see now that Texas is where ill retire at the end of military service. Something people here dont realize is that Texan love a good fight this scenario is nothing to sneer at. People from other states would join in support.
Posted by: American Peshmerga | April 17, 2009 12:17 AM
A retarded article by a retard.
Posted by: MG | April 17, 2009 1:15 AM
If things got bad enough for them to secede, there are a string of solid red states between them that could follow: Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas for starters. This neatly cuts the lower 48 right down the middle.
You could call it Jesusland!
Posted by: brandon | April 17, 2009 1:39 AM
I am absolutely appalled at these comments. I am both a Texan and a democrat, and though we did spit up George Bush, I believe each state has their own crazy right wingers.
Come on- really? You guys want to kick us out? I love living in Texas. Just because I don't agree with the overall political party doesn't mean we don't have plenty of good to counter it.
I think some of these comments are as hateful and crazy as many wingnut comments on other sites. Way to lower yourselves.
Posted by: jrav | April 17, 2009 1:53 AM
America would be better off without Texas? Good luck getting on without all the oil and cotton produced here. And the headquarters of several large companies, and of course, NASA in Houston. Oh and half the telecom industry.
Just because our unpopular governor says stuff like this doesn't mean the rest of us want it.
Posted by: J. Schmittou | April 17, 2009 2:35 AM
Those of you who are deficient in American History, be reminded thatTexas was an independant Republic when asked to join the Union. The law passed to admit Texas to the Union is unique. It allows Texas to revert to independence and also to divide up into as many as 5 states (with Congressional approval). I believe that Governor Perry is making a point. That point is that the Federal government, intended to be limited in nature and scope, has gone way beyond the enumerated powers given to it by the Constitution and has totally ignored the 10th amendment to the Constitution.
Posted by: Felix335 | April 17, 2009 6:17 AM
Vermont made noise about secession a few years back, but I don't remember the same type of reaction from the left or right then. In fact the reactions were pretty much the exact opposite as what we have here now. The outrage and vile comments coming from both sides of the political spectrum are made only when convenient and there is a narrative that fits their own preconceived notions. Ya'll don't really have prinicples.
Posted by: Joe I | April 17, 2009 7:30 AM
The idea of Texas secession is really just a corollary of US Federal failure which is very thinkable as the FED puts its own balance sheet at risk and the administration puts the FDIC at risk. Besides, Vermont has already effectively seceded since it has nullified the Union at risk by rendering the "full faith and credit clause" null.
Posted by: joebek | April 17, 2009 8:18 AM
What foolishness! It has been proven mathematically that small countries with their own currencies are less efficient than larger countries. That's why the Euro exists. Texas does have the right, under its agreement to be annexed to the United States, to split itself into five states. Imagine ten Texan U.S. Senators!
Posted by: Laurent | April 17, 2009 8:43 AM
Re: Vermont secession. I think everyone can agree at least that state Supreme Courts cannot compel their individual states to secede as a matter of state constitutional law. I am not sure why we can agree on that. Maybe someone has a thought. However, it is entirely another matter when the State Legislature votes for secession.
Posted by: joebek | April 17, 2009 8:47 AM
Hey, it's nice to see the left being honest that politics is nothing more than the application of brute force, politics is simply war by other means.
Justice (n): whatever you can ram down someone else's throat.
Posted by: Asher | April 17, 2009 9:00 AM
I'm from beautiful New Jersey(for all the haters); and Texas is as American as any other place in this beautiful country of OURS. Just because a few idiots want to talk about secession doesn't mean we should bad mouth all Texans. This is foolishness and we should treat it as such instead of amplifying the voices of stupid people
Good bless all 50 states!!!
Posted by: Beanabong | April 17, 2009 9:47 AM
FYI! Texas already has it's own Army and Air Force that is controlled by the Govener and not by the Pentagon.
It will be awfully dark in the Northeast and especially Washington DC when we cut the natural gas from moving that direction. We do control 75% of all the gas produced in the US and it Louisiana joined us the we would control 90% of that same fuel. Of course Washington is in the dark already.
Posted by: jp | April 17, 2009 10:24 AM
This is the reason why we need to invest in better liberal-arts education! Anyone with a history book would realize that individual states (including Texas) lost their right to secede from the Union immediately at the end of the Civil War. When the former Confederate states had to be readmitted into the Union it was based on the premises given by the U.S. government which included losing the right to secede forever. Plus most Texans would realize the stupidity of entertaining the thought after the results of the last time the idea of secession came to fruition (the over 500,000 lives lost during the Civil War). And whoever brought up holding the Mississippi delta as an advantage should ask the former Confederate states how that turned out last time.
Posted by: Tone | April 17, 2009 10:29 AM
Instead of a knife between our teeth, we have the drool of Chuck Norris on our lips!
Posted by: Shimmy | April 17, 2009 10:40 AM
especially Washington DC when we cut the natural gas from moving that direction.
I don't think the folks who OWN the pipelines would like the lack of income that would entail, along with every financial transaction taking place in and out of TX frozen solid by the US Treasury Dept in retaliation, unless you thing Texans could live on Lone Star Beer and roasted armadillo.......
Posted by: The Dark Avenger | April 17, 2009 10:49 AM
Entertaining the theory for a second and hypothesizing that Texas would be on the receiving end of an embargo if it chose to secede, I'm not sure the 49 states could afford to do that. Texas makes a LOT of things that Americans have come to enjoy/rely on. While a lot of technology comes out of California, a lot of the hardware comes out of Texas:
You like cell phones? We have Freescale.
You like computers? We have Intel and Dell.
You like servers? We have IBM
You like your Playstation? Designed at IBM
You wanna predict the weather, test your manufacturing process, calculate stuff? Texas Instruments and National Instruments are in Texas.
You want to vote? We have Hart Intercivic...
And that's just places my friends work...
I'm a liberal/progressive from Austin. But I find all this talk about "let them go" is a little lame. It's no better than people who say "If you don't like it, you can leave." What happened to progressives holding themselves to a higher standard?
Posted by: Discovery | April 17, 2009 11:03 AM
You like cell phones? We have Freescale.
You like computers? We have Intel and Dell.
You like servers? We have IBM
You like your Playstation? Designed at IBM
You wanna predict the weather, test your manufacturing process, calculate stuff? Texas Instruments and National Instruments are in Texas.
You want to vote? We have Hart Intercivic...
Of course this is all an intellectual exercise, but when Quebec started seriously threatening to secede from Canada the major corporations started moving headquarters and employees out of the province due to the massive legal, economic, and trade uncertainty the whole thing caused. Then the English-speaking areas started a partition movement to remain in Canada.
I'm not sure if somebody above was joking, but yes, Texas can keep the 2nd Armored Division. The US will take the 1st and 3rd CAV and 1st ID.
Posted by: ericblair | April 17, 2009 11:33 AM
Seriously, all the delicate flowers who are "horrified" by all this talk about secession really, really need to lighten up. I know things are sort of crazy right now, but I wasn't aware that losing one's sense of humor was a good way to deal. Besides, has no one else had this conversation before? My friends and I must have had this exact same conversation a dozen times. Do we *really* think Texas or the Old South is going to secede? Do you really think that question requires an answer?
Although, to all the progressives here from Texas complaining about how it's not fair to judge all of Texas by the comments of their obviously crazy governor, I'd only say this: I haven't seen or heard anyone from Texas up in arms (as it were) about how crazy this is and how Perry needs to apologize or resign. He's your governor. You voted him in. Don't like dealing with crazy republicans? Vote someone else in. I'm just sayin.
Posted by: TimE | April 17, 2009 11:37 AM
The fact that George Bush lives in Texas doesn't make the state of Texas responsible for his acts.
People in Texas are just like people in every other state, good, bad, ugly, republican, democrat.
RayS, your comments are proof that idiocy knows no (state) boundaries.
Posted by: Texan since 1854 | April 17, 2009 11:57 AM
Let Texas secede, then we would have more space to make illegal aliens legal like we want to do.
Posted by: Nina | April 17, 2009 2:32 PM
>taking away valuable resources from, oh, feeding its people,
You flaming liberal government has NO responsibility in feeding freeloaders. That is what this is about.
You are clueless as the other liberals in the media.
God Bless Texas!
Posted by: george | April 17, 2009 2:36 PM
Let them go. Like an angry child who threatens to run away from home, you let them pack their bags and within an hour they're dying to be back, we should let Texas go, allow them to see how awful that decision was, and welcome them back with open arms.
Posted by: Justin | April 17, 2009 3:13 PM
"Anyone with a history book would realize that individual states (including Texas) lost their right to secede from the Union immediately at the end of the Civil War. When the former Confederate states had to be readmitted into the Union it was based on the premises given by the U.S. government which included losing the right to secede forever." So the new name for revolution is secession. Besides we don't even need to get revolutionary on this question, the Constitution being a living document and all. And don't bring up any of that Christian roaderism about "The Union". The whole purpose of secularization is free minds to think of new eras. Or to quote Roberto Dylan: "It's all over now baby blue."
Posted by: joebek | April 17, 2009 8:08 PM
It looks like we're all in agreement, then, might really does make right, and justice is whatever you can ram down someone else's throat. Good to know.
Posted by: Asher | April 18, 2009 1:58 AM
testing 1 2 3
Posted by: Mason | April 18, 2009 7:24 AM
One more time... (argh)
Any state that secedes in present-day America will would wound the greater United States and slit its own throat at the same time. 2009 is not like 1861, when most people lived outside of cities and many grew a majority of their own foods, sewed their own clothes, and depended mostly on goods produced within a 50 mile radius. Free (and speedy) trade is integral to a modern standard of living.
I've met great Texans and pigheaded ones. I generally take a tolerant attitude to their overweening self-regard because they tend to have good manners in most other respects. And as a cook I love the Czech kolaches, grilled meats, and varied hot sauces that many Texans are so passionate about.
Openly gloating about letting TX conservatives form Jesusland is puerile, and talk of armed insurrection and "fragging" is doubly so (not to mention treasonous -- a citizen's first loyalty is to the nation, not your state). In the hell-freezes-over event of definitive secession, a few weeks or months of closed borders and unplugged power grids would give even the most unhinged conservative a reality check. For all its great economic wealth Texas has no more hope of being self-sustaining than does California.
Posted by: Mason | April 18, 2009 7:25 AM
One more thing: Texas is no more distinct from the remainder of the country (regardless of its story of origin) than New Mexico, or South Florida. It should not be compared to Slovakia, or Ukraine, or the (unlikely but possible) independent Scotland or Quebec; each of these regions were linguistically distinct before being subsumed into the larger country.
Posted by: Mason | April 18, 2009 8:10 AM
If the "old confederacy" left, most of the military would go with them...how are you wine swilling, half-men gonna defend yourselves? We would take you over in a heartbeat. What are you gonna fight with? Poetry? You almost got beat the last time by shoeless soldiers with inferior equipment...now that we have more money and industry, it would be a cake walk.
I love these hateful comments from leftist idiots..."ethnic cleansing"...no wonder the liberal suicide rate is triple! It would be paradise without the South?
Camden and Detroit is better than Raleigh or Orlando? It is more affordable in the south and the quality of life is superior. You enjoy that Euro socialist paradise you want to create where no one can afford to live now.
Well, New Hampshire and the Plains may join us.
Posted by: LDB | April 18, 2009 9:31 AM
Permanent drought predicted for Southwest U.S.
Published 6 April 2007 by Los Angeles Times
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/06/science/sci-swdrought6
Posted by: a-j | April 18, 2009 10:01 AM
Re: "Any state that secedes in present-day America will would wound the greater United States and slit its own throat at the same time." by Mason @4/18 7:25
Secession when it happens will be negotiated. Singapore already proves the viability of the ancient Greek city state. Why do we need a behemoth nation? Also it is more likely the Northeast that will secede than Texas since the current economic crisis will likely break the ties holding NY to the US. Secularization is meant to open the nation to the influence of men of Machiavellian virtue. That this virtue may, in cases, demand entirely new political arrangements is hardly surprising. It is part of the interest and excitement of living in interesting times.
Posted by: Anonymous | April 18, 2009 2:00 PM
If only they'd seceded 10 years ago . . .
Posted by: Stuart | April 18, 2009 4:00 PM
If Texas seceded, every productive person in America would move there.
Posted by: Jay | April 19, 2009 10:27 AM
Let it go to Mexico... you'd instantly stop people who want a better life, from having to become criminals to get it.
And who needs borders anyway? If everyone's from everywhere these days, who cares about who comes along to fight for the opportunities that society creates??
What, you're better than they are because you're American and they're not?...
Please, come to Europe and find out how much you guys rate on the 'impressive scale'... ahahaha
Open the borders people, turn off the bloody TV and learn to live with one another.
Posted by: Reggie | April 19, 2009 2:54 PM
Reggie... Why on earth would anyone want to go to Europe?
Posted by: Steve | April 19, 2009 11:51 PM
Oh you know... Maybe to see the crazy world that you're grandfathers gave their lives to save, from the evil of Hitler...
Cheers by the way, cos it's really great here :-)
Posted by: Reggie | April 20, 2009 3:14 PM
They also said Texas didn't stand a chance against the Mexicans at the Alamo. You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas!
Posted by: Anonymous | April 20, 2009 4:53 PM
Oh, please. 94 cents?! California got 78 for each dollar we pungled up in 2005. We'd have a balanced budget if we weren't busy paying the bills for the rest of the country.
I'd like to see a poll on California secession. See if we can't do better than a paltry 19%.
Posted by: Anders | April 23, 2009 12:32 AM
We should let global warming progress to the point where sea levels rise and once again convert all of Texas into a sea. That would solve the problem.
Posted by: Femoral Partery | June 15, 2009 11:43 AM
دردشة
Posted by: دردشه | June 15, 2009 2:49 PM
Ezra and the idiot sheep who agree with him are one of the biggest problems this nation has. Extremists from either end of the political spectrum are destroying this country. They antagonize each other and waste our tax dollars with their "quests". They produce NOTHING and live off the labor of the working class. They should be exiled or executed for treason for their attempts to destroy our country.
To hell with them all.
Jay G.
Posted by: jay galloway | September 3, 2009 10:34 AM
Hey. How are yall doing today. I don't understand why most of you are too stupid to realise the simplicity of the topic about secession. Let me sum up a few facts for people who have to think too hard to understand. It's only 3 facts so don't get lost with your ADD. Try to focus.
1. At least Texas has the balls to secede, and can take care of itself.
2. If you don't try, then you lose. So, you're a loser...I feel sorry for you people.
3. If you don't like Texas and vice versa, then leave and quit blabbering like a fool about other things that are nowhere near related to secession.
Posted by: Warren | September 3, 2009 5:41 PM
Um... the texans are already heavily armed.
Posted by: Eddie | October 27, 2009 2:23 AM
As a Texan, I would support withdrawing from this growing Socialist nation. I love the United States but it is moving towards penalizing those who try to succeed and rewarding those who do not. From what I can see the government prefers a nation of under educated followers that are completely dependent on government hand outs and is opposed to free thinking motivated citizens looking to better their country and themselves. I am tired of being broke while corrupt politicians extort us. The US government is getting bigger every day and one problem with that is they have no product and their only revenue is what they can extort from tax payers. Well at least they didn’t have a product until they started taking over private businesses and historically they have proven that they cannot successfully run any system other than that of corrupt politician wealth and military strength. Medicare and social security are already failing due to corruption and socialized medicine will be the next on the list. I have one question does the US constitution have anything in it that states that it is acceptable for the US government to put the insurance companies in the private sector out of business? How would you feel if you owned a business and the US government wanted to be your competition and had intentions on undercutting you while increasing your overall expenses in doing business? If the US government was a business and was responsible for its own actions it would have all ready failed and gone bankrupt a long time ago but of course it can survive because it has the ability to legally extort the American public and the ability to print money. The problem is though every time they do print more money the value of the dollars you have go down. You are losing your freedom every day and you do not realize it. If you want an answer to the economy I will give you one, cut 70% of government spending, fire 75% of the people in charge, make the act of lobbying illegal and punishable by prison time, create a spending limit of $200,000 for campaigning and allow the American public the ability to actually vote on issues and have that system be run across the Internet with an open source server allowing for true transparency. Make politicians directly accountable by prison time if caught in corruption or for accepting funds for any reason; remove all laws that require a lawyer to interpret them, remove all laws currently in place that are not supported by the constitution. Abolish the IRS and create a flat sales tax. Once all businesses are owned and operated by the government and the government assigns your Childs or grandchild’s career remember the support that you showed them. They can just bow to the USSA. Enjoy your freedom of speech now it may not be around much longer.
Posted by: Jeff | November 9, 2009 12:18 PM