I was ready to partially bury the hatchet with the DLC until I flipped through Ben Wattenberg's new memoir.

He cheerfully quotes DLC founder Al Fromm as calling the left-wing of the Democrats the "taliban wing of the Democratic Party".

Maybe he's trying to re-start a fight, but if it's true, Fromm's an a**.

I agree. The DLC is on the way out. Kos is just being gracious in victory.

My perception is that the Blue Dog Dems have gained strength and visibility in Congress, but without an organization (except their caucus meetings). Plus, Hillary's team (and outriders) were forced by Obama into a more lefty position than traditional DLC-think.

However, the biggest factor of all in a diminished DLC is probably the selection of Harold Ford to lead - the virtual definiton of a soggy toast politico.

The guns the progressives/liberals turned on the DLC earlier in the decade now need to be aimed at the Blue Dogs, and the way to do that is classic carrots and sticks.

The stick of a vigorous primary fight over key votes that undercut the Dem's positions needs to be bigger, used more often, and swung much harder. The carrot crop needs to be holded a bit and released only on proven voting behavior in Congressional votes.

The netroots are lining up behind a candidate to the right of Clinton in 1992 and we are top pretend the DLC is the loser?

The netroots did sell out, or some did. They're fine when they're not banning or troll-hunting ad nauseum. Thanks Kos!

Um, see FISA and Impeachment off the Table for the fairytale of the "power of the netroots."

run along, children

Another interpretation would be that Kos is a hyperbolic ass who doesn't remember half the screeds he writes.

Kos is the one person who Ford could probably beat up. That those two nitwits are "leaders" of Democratic factions is sad testament to the decay of the party.

Can't see how the netroots can claim victory when Obama is more centrist than the past two nominees and uncle Howard.

The tragedy is that Obama is to the RIGHT of the DLC on many issues (esp. rights/justice issues), and exactly in step with them on their corporations-first agenda--and Kos has essentially turned his site over to cheerleading and/or rationalizing all that.

I keep hearing how Obama is to the right of Clinton/DLC/some-notional-Democrat-somewhere,
but I never hear on what issue.

Is this all about the guns?

Or is this just COINTELPRO bullshit from people banking McCain Maverick Points?

T.Paine--death penalty expansion, faith-based funding expansion, bombing Pakistan whether they allow it or not, spying on us is fine, guns for everyone, tax cuts as how you help the economy, Harry and Louise on healthcare, "state's rights" for all hot-button issues like equal rights, complimenting Republicans and painting the only successful Dem in 40 years as a racist, using Rove's playbook overall, not running on issues that define our party, pandering to evangelicals, telling women they should consult their "pastors" if they're thinking about abortion, ...

"Or is this just COINTELPRO bullshit from people banking McCain Maverick Points?"

That sounds like a Kossack talking point. If you disagree, you must be a RNC twoll! Ban the twoll! Ban 'em!

Oh good grief. Markos is preening again?????

For God's sake.....it was Markos who supported all those 2006 Blue Dogs who have now aligned themselves with Obama's YES vote on FISA, including Jim Webb and Claire McCaskill.

They've all moved TOWARDS Harold Ford, and AWAY from the primadonna Markos.

Basically, it was Markos who got played like a drum during the primaries.

Obama doesn't give a rat's a$$ what Daily Kos says.

Got that?

amberglow: That's a pretty good list of:
a) Constitutional law/Supreme Court issues that the President and Congress can't really change. Who cares?
b) Discredited talking points - discussing how Reagan transforming politics is verboten? That's, uh, dumb.
c) I have no idea what you're blathering about with the Harry and Louise and tax cuts crack - where has Obama (or any Dem) been running this?
d) Pastors and abortion: 100% NARAL Illinois rating.
e) Painting the Clintons as racist...if only there were a link to Obama doing this - I won't hold my breath.
e) The rest of it (unilateral military action; faith-based expansion; not running on issues that define the party) were all pioneered by Bill Clinton. If you think that "welfare reform," destroying unions through NAFTA, murderous sanctions against Iraq, and unilateral military action in Yugoslavia are core Democratic principles, I think you're really confused.

The only thing that is really execrable is the FISA flop.

So, fuck it. He's a politician, and he's similar to or better than Clinton on some things and worse on others. Gracious me, fetch the smelling salts and a Nader ballot.

Nader?
LOL. As if that were the only option.

Ezra:
You are kidding, right? Haven't you been paying attention to the Blue Dogs/Bush Dogs? The DLC has not been purged yet.

Ezra, Glenn Greenwald nailed you to the wall:

"About Harold Ford's appearance at Netroots Nation, Ezra Klein says that because the netroots is so much more powerful and influential within the Democratic Party than the DLC is, it's unnecessary for the netroots to battle against the likes of Harold Ford. It's truly baffling how anyone could have watched the Bush-enabling Democrats over the last two years and claim that the DLC mentality is marginalized and the netroots mentality is predominant. If anything, the fading away of the DLC is a function of the fact that its worldview predominates in the Democratic Party and there's thus no need for an organization like that to try to "reform" the Democrats by making them "centrist.""

This is so totally true that it cannot be improved upon. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are in not the slightest danger. The conservatives are running the Democratic Party, and the netroots are fully behind the Democratic Party... fully behind it, no matter how much Obama or Reid or Pelosi piss upon liberal values. Maybe you didn't notice, Ezra, that the Democrats just wrote and passed a law that immunized the telephone companies from civil suits about their illegal wiretapping for the past 7 years. There is not the slightest indication that the Democratic apparatus has changed one thing they've ever done because of liberal activists, and the reason for that is simple: the liberal activists are behind them, rain or shine. Since they're unwilling to vote for a third party, their support is utterly guaranteed and the Democrats can move as far right as they want.

I am going to have to agree with Greenwald here. Despite the indulgence of the "netroots," they and their political leaders are hardly pushing the agenda.

While the argument tossed around so often is that the democratic presidential candidates are more progressive than last go around, it seems rather specious. The so-called leftward movement of the political class is more the product of the facts on the ground: the American people--not their politicians--are suffering considerably and thus are more committed to significant changes, especially concerning the economy and Iraq. And while the American people are ever more vigilantly opposed to the wall street/Washington consensus on the economy, the democratic party is as much in thrall to the street, its lobbying arms, and such. As evidence, Obama's political team and its policies resemble the DLC (cutler, goolsbee), the Hamilton group (furman) and the centrist program of the 1990s. A sharp contrast to the supposed agenda of the powerful "netroots."

To me, at least, it seems that the netroots helps elect politicians and the centrist political establishment helps them govern. The latter is a much greater barometer of one's strengths. Its time to acknowledge this rather clear reality and work to destroy it.

Sssh. Ezra and Kos and the netroots are fighting FISA by blogging on their iphones...

By the way, any Kossacks want to take a moment to ponder on whether the former Republican military CIA wannabe bully boy is the real COINTELPRO troll? Bueller?