“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former adulterer and bribe taker, cheated is outrageous,” [Nikole Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain] said.

First, Val Kilmer was a great Batman. His voice was better than Bale's, he was an excellent Bruce Wayne, and if it wasn't for Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face and Jim Carrey's Riddler, it would have beat Tmm Burton's first Batman.


That having been said, the McCain camps "former prisoner of war" response is very reminiscent of John Kerry's "former Vietnam Vetera response". "It's outrageous to suggest that John Kerry, a former Vietnam war veteran, is an elitist." "It's absurd to suggest that a former Vietnam war veteran like John Kerry wants to raise taxes." It didn't get Kerry elected, and isn't likely to help McCain all that much, either.


Although I wouldn't expect McCain to use The Keating Five as a defense, any more than John Murtha might bring up AbScam when defending his positions.

Wait for it- McCain will rebuke his spokesperson who included the POW mention, thus proving that 1) All that nasty negative campaigning is not really McCain's fault, 2) McCain is very reluctant to talk about being a POW, while 3) simultaneously letting everyone know that, hey, McCain is a brave former POW!

To repeat what I posted in a previous thread, I remember many a pundit explaining to us rubes that Kerry brought the swiftboating attacks upon himself because he made his Vietnam service an issue. Shouldn't McCain's war record now be an issue? Like his collaboration with the Vietcong in producing anti-American propaganda videos? Sure, sure, I can understand that anyone who's being tortured will do anything he is asked to do. But it's still legitimate to point out that McCain did not put "Country First" during his captivity.

Rove has taught us all that the best way to attack an opponent is to take his biggest perceived advantage and turn it into a disadvantage. McCain claims the presidency as his rightful reward for having suffered for us as a former prisoner of war. It's only apt and proper to examine those years. Let's see what fellow POWs have to say, perhaps track down his captors for a Nightline Special.

Also, Erza says, "I'm not too interested in this whole 'cone of silence' question." Why?? McCain cheated by not being in a "cone of silence" as agreed, and then lied by not acknowledging that he wasn't in one, when Warren asked him how he liked it. Why shouldn't we be interested? How many of McCain's lies and fabrications we're not going to be "too interested in" because campaigns should be about serious issues?

I remember in 1988 when a WWII vet came forth to state that Bush the First's war record was not as beautiful as we were led to believe. Before the Bushies even had a chance to pounce, Dukakis dismissed the vet's comments in no uncertain terms as beneath contempt. That's the same Dukakis who was savaged by Bush the First as being an un-American swarthy socialist who encouraged black criminals to rape white women. I guess Dukakis wasn't "too interested" either.

____________________________________________

"First, Val Kilmer was a great Batman. His voice was better than Bale's, he was an excellent Bruce Wayne, and if it wasn't for Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face and Jim Carrey's Riddler, it would have beat Tmm Burton's first Batman."

There were far more problems with Batman Forever than Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey. The fact that the script was retarded and the director had no understanding of the character are far more offensive than Jones or Carrey.

That being said, I always thought Clooney would make a great Batman. And, had the two aforementioned problems not returned for his turn in the cowl, I might've been proven right.

"i am not too interested in this cone of silence question."

i am.
actions speak louder than words.
it is always easy to say the right things.
i think small actions often speak louder than lofty words and promises.
when a person's word is no longer their bond, what is left is the sum of their actions, and their words cannot really be trusted.

Kev, the difference between Kerry and McCain is that the quotes you present attributed to Kerry are parodies, while the quote we have from the McCain campaign really happened. I hope your comment isn't some kind of Reaganesque, "if it should have happened, then it happened" kind of thing from you.

McCain talks a lot about honor. He took his to the cleaners when he decided that the Rove Way was his path to the POTUS - but the cleaners lost it after McCain failed to pick it up after many months.

Now, he's just an old fart hack, lying thru that hideous grin that just says plainly 'I'm lying and we both know it".

Note that this:

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” [Nikole Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain] said.

is a non-denial denial. The question isn't whether it's outrageous, the question isn't even whether McCain "cheated"--after all, definitions of "cheated" vary.

The question is whether McCain received any advance indication of what the questions would be. And they haven't answered that question.

Ezra, I think you're making a mistake not latching onto this "cone of silence" issue. It is further evidence of a broader narrative that John McCain is not trustworthy and is selling his soul and trashing his brand (in short, doing anything possible) to win the election. He's now making up stories, plagiarizing, and flat out lying about his own and his opponent's record. None of these issues alone is probably a big deal, but there is definitely a broader narrative in play here and the only way the MSM will begin to pick up on it is if people like you, who have a platform, continue to beat the drum.

when a person's word is no longer their bond, what is left is the sum of their actions, and their words cannot really be trusted.

Like when Obama said he fight the FISA bill, and then he didn't?

jeebus

all people can and do change political positions in a campaign season, in a lifetime.
believe nothing that you hear and half of what you see.
but a person's character is built into every life choice they make.

try as you will and have, to refute that,
we all have our human failings and weaknesses, but it is our character, our honesty, our truthfulness, our courage and accountability in dealing with those weaknesses, that creates a leader.
character matters.

I love getting the "true believer" treatment from Jacquline, makes the mornings worthwhile.

So, Obama taking s sweetheart deal on his mansion with soon to be felon Tony Rezko? Being affiliated with the late great Reverand Wright, who he can "no more disown than my own grandmother" and then disowns two weeks later? Kicking off his political career with Bill "let's blow-up american troops" Ayers(did he support the troops when he was trying to murder them?) and his lovely wife, Bernadine "Charles Manson was so groovey" Dorn?

Say what you want about McCain, but he did spend 2 years in solitary confinement in a viet cong prison (could have got out by making a few more propaganda films) refused parole to go home early and volunteered for multiple combat missions. Best as I can tell, not having read his biography, Obama's greatest challenge was failing to get the whip cream on the triple latte he once ordered. But yes, character is what counts.

You can sort of picture the conversation with his first wife:

W: "Are you cheating on me?"

McCain: "The insinuation from you that I, a former POW, and messing around with other women, is outrageous!"

As Kevin Willis and others have alluded to, we don't think that McCain, the former POW, is dishonest. We think that McCain, the Keating 5 survivor and Iraq war supporter, is dishonest.

Shorter Jacqueline: Politican's votes and positions aren't life choices or even indicative of character.

So, why bother caring about anyone's voting record? Between the sheets is all that matters.

Wasn't that Dubya's platform?

I agree with jacqueline and SDinIA. McCain agreed to a prominent public event with certain rules, and he gave the impression that he followed the rules, but in fact he cheated in a way that could've given him a substantial advantage. (Not being at the church while Obama was answering was cheating; if McCain actually used this to figure out the questions, it gave him an advantage.)

While Obama's reversal on FISA was not good, it's nothing comparable to what McCain did here. It's more like, say, McCain's flip-flopping on the Bush tax cuts and a hundred other issues.

Character matters all right. Too bad we have two candidates with very little of it.

The charge that McCain was not in the "cone of silence" is a baseless one and one that was quickly thought up because of Obama's weak performance.

The truth is, there is no basis for this charge.....made up...out of whole cloth to try to explain away Obama's inability and McCain's obvioius experience.

ElV, it's a fact that he wasn't in the "cone of silence." That's why Nikole had to respond with such a stupid statement.

You can argue about whether it affected to outcome or not, but it's the simple truth. I don't see why you're disputing the fact of the matter here.

Ok, I'm interested in this assertion and its basis. Willing to be proven wrong.

Let's have it.

The "prisoner of war" defense has its analog on the other side--"The insinuation that Barack Obama, a Black Man, is too inexperienced to lead this country is outrageous--and racist."

Ok, I'm interested in this assertion and its basis.

Click the link.

You just blithely assumed, because McCain was a Republican and Obama is a Democrat, that McCain was in the "cone of silence" and that the Obama campaign's statement -- echoed by McCain's own campaign staff -- was baseless.

That, ElV, is not a firm basis for moral reasoning or living a moral life. I realize that the Republican ideology forces you to be against thinking and learning as a condition of your membership in the club, but you are treading on dangerous moral ground when you make such baseless assertions against Obama. Why you chose to accuse Obama of being dishonest, in the face of the evidence, is a worrisome sign.

That old fuck really likes to talk a lot about being a prisoner of war... maybe we do us both a favor and send him back there.

also, jesus, jacqueline, are you trying to sound like the stereotypical 1950s father every type you make a comment on this blog? I mean, come on, character, my word is my bond, jesus, this shit doesn't mean anything. What is character? Just try to tell me what character is or how we should measure it. It's just another stupid buzzword like leadership that Republicans throw around, but mean nothing, and that we should be smarter than to buy into.

"what is character"

in an effort to facilitate your spiritual evolution, here are some universal definitions of character in four major schools of world thinking.
if you find yourself in philosophical disagreement, perhaps you can explore further on your own.

~~~virtuousness in accordance with plato:
wisdom, courage, self-control,justice, fortitude

~~~virtuousness in accordance with christianity:
prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude

~~~virtuousness in accordance with hinduism:
non-violence, truth, purity, self -control

~~~virtuousness in accordance with buddhism:
mindfulness, self-possession,moral shame, moral fear, patience, gentleness, good, appropriatee knowledge, good appropriate conduct, mental tranquility, spiritual insight, gratitude, reciprocating the benefit rendered.

i hope this will assist you in your quest for your own personal truth.

Click the link.

The artilce has two opinions. One was Warren saying that he was in the cone and the other was the author who states that Warren was surprised to learn that he was not.

I guess this is all a "sidebar" to the issue of did McCain have advanced knowledge of the questions.

If McCain's advice had been taken where they would be in townhall meetings with both on the stage, there would be no room for speculation.

In any event, Obama got his ass kicked.

Why-o-why is this a scandal? If anyone comes off badly, it'd be Warren who set up this rather dippy structure and did nothing to make sure it was followed. Otherwise, yeah, sure maybe it was a slight edge for McCain to have heard the questions and the responses, but, seriously, was anything asked that was all that surprising? Did McCain manage to capitalize on Obama's answers without directly referring to them? On the whole, no harm no foul. Charles Van Doren this aint.

Trying to turn this into a character issue is just odd, imho. An equally plausible explanation for McCain NOT saying to Warren "Oh, by the way, your cone has holes" is that he didn't want to rock the boat or show up his host. Maybe not the most upstanding course of action to take, but certainly recognizable to most Americans as good manners.

Not to say that the blogs, the MSM, and the Obama campaign shouldn't be hounding McCain on inconsistencies and deceits. Just that this one doesn't rise to the level of questionable, let alone outrageous.

And Jacqueline turns to her dog-eared copy of Philosophy for Dummies to avoid answering a question.

Why would anyone with a handle that is deliberately designed to offend others expect anyone to respond?

This is just about the saddest attack I've ever come across.
Learn a little something about POWs, about how spending 5 years in captivity and treated like an animal and beaten nearly to death changes a person. The John McCain that got married, was not the same John McCain that left the prison camp and spent years getting his body, mind and soul back together.

To compare McCains actions to those of say a Bill Clinton or John Edwards who has nothing but their own selfishness cause them to cheat, every normal person can understand that a marriage is most likley not going to survive 6 years of separation
and the conditions John was subjected to in Vietnam.

The fact you would attack McCain on this says much more about your character then his.

What's next, are you going to attack McCain for stealing bread and broth from his Vietcong guards??

"Learn a little something about POWs, about how spending 5 years in captivity and treated like an animal and beaten nearly to death changes a person."

Shut the fuck up, loser. You're a joke.

Shut the fuck up, loser.

Anonymous offers up an argument which is more than I can say for you.

You're a joke.

Errrrr....there's a mirror over there.