The discussion on energy is perhaps the most encouraging thing I've heard from Obama throughout the whole campaign. It's been getting overlooked recently, so it's good to see Obama shift it back to front-and-centre

It's pretty good. I'd sure like to hear about our wars, though.

wonderful wonderful and wonderful!

I thought Obama would mention Iraq in his "how do we pay for all this?" section. Woulda formed a pretty seemless transition from domestic to foreign policy.

He's killing it. 'Nuff said.

Crushed. Absolutely knocked it out of the park.

He quite simply couldn't have done any better than he did. Pitch freaking perfect.

The comment "let's not make a big election about small things" was not just a rejoinder to McCain, but also to the press. Skillful, subtle.

I doubt the press heard it that way.

Perfect.

bill kristal just said the speech exceeded expectations. That must have hurt.

I was really hoping that he'd do something for party unity and say something to the many women who are hurting from sexism in the primaries... at least acknowledge it, perhaps even promise to increase representation of women in government.

Am I the only one who thought it was boring? That is lacked substance? That it was just more of the same?

I'm a partisan Dem who longs for substance, so I know that the speech wasn't for me. I'm not the target audience. But what did Senator Obama say that hadn't been said time and time again by all the other Democrats?

I remain convinced that this is Obama's to win. No speech, no matter good or bad, will change that. But this was certainly didn't exceed my expectations.

I caught the tail end of it... and I have to say, it pretty much did what I needed it to do to convince me. Happy, jacqueline? :)

Seriously, I think what I liked best is that it was hard for me to see how Republicans can counter what he offered tonight - not just in specific policies, but in an overarching theme of how to bring people together for a common good. I think Obama has had the reverse problem of many politicians - a lot of soaring rhetoric not necessarily grounded in practical details. Tonight, it seemed to me he found the final piece that brought the two elements together, and in a way that simply shattered all other possibilities (as much as I loved Clinton - both of them, really - I couldn't remotely imagine her giving a speech so complete in its thinking, or him giving one quite so selfless).

At the very least it's satisfying to feel we are all together. Again.

Of Course.

I'd love to stay up and read the rest, but I am a foreigner in London, with my last day at a job in the morning. It is 4.24 here, and I must rest. But I go to bed full of hope for tomorrow, and with tears in my eyes over what I saw today.

Somewhere in a small cave, John McCain and Petey are quietly weeping together....

Yappa: he did give another strong tribute to Hillary Clinton, specifically as an inspiration to women. I'm not sure if he could have done much more without either making the speech even longer or taking the focus off himself, the candidate.

Yappa,

Don't you think the "I want my daughters to have the same opportunities as your sons" line was a pointer in that direction?

I think the single best part was when he called out McCain to acknowledge that this was ultimately a contest between honest and patriotic men. I DON'T think that would have been wise against Bush (who never pretended he was going to fight clean), but it forces McCain to finally make that last choice b/w being a "maverick" and being a Republican.

As a speech I thought it was fine -- nothing too radically different from BO. But it was a pretty great use of the political theater that should provide a lot of nice quotes to force John McCain to react tomorrow.

That's pretty cute, Russell, since Obama is constantly mocked for speaking in more sweeping terms than his opponents--too vague, too messianic, etc. Now that he laid out specific proposals, you're saying he wasn't different enough.

Tomemos, I'm sorry, but what specifics did I miss? The speech toned down the sweepiness, but specifics? It was all very vague.

And boo for saying reasonable people can disagree on gay marriage. They can't.

I think the single best part was when he called out McCain to acknowledge that this was ultimately a contest between honest and patriotic men.

Yeah, except it's not. McCain really is a narcissistic, inconsiderate, dishonest, bloodthirsty, preening asshole.

And although I understand the politics of kind of offering a truce along those lines, I basically feel that this aspect of Obama's rhetoric -- the "we're all on the same side here" bit -- is fundamentally conservative and opposed to the kind of radical change our society needs.

The folks who profit from this corrupt, destructive, collapsing system will ignore every call for change until reform becomes the only alternative to their own destruction. FDR didn't talk about being on the same side as Wall Street -- he talked about "malefactors of great wealth." We can't appeal to the better angels of their nature -- if indeed they exist -- until we put the fear of God into them.

it was a beautiful, happy and joyous evening!
the angels WERE there!
....and thanks for the smile, weboy.
the evening was as beautiful as one of your flowerludes!
it is great to see all of us smiling again!
:-)
:-)

He gave his plans for taxes, health care, energy, foreign policy…if you're mad because he wasn't listing numbers, I think you're confused about what goes in a nationwide campaign speech and what goes on a website.

Of course I agree with you on gay marriage; that was a whole section of the speech where he listed all the controversial topics--immigration, gun control, etc.--that he's not touching with a ten-foot pole. That and the "personal responsibility" stuff was all I had trouble getting excited about.

When you get around to it, you might want to check out/post the Word cloud of the speech.

The new keyword: Promise.

Russell, you miss the point. Obviously his policies are solidly in the mainstream of the Democratic Party. That's where he stands.

But you imply, by claiming that it's nothing different than what the typical Democrat says, that it won't be effective. But we've established the problem in the media time after time again is that they don't report what the media says; they focus on incredibly stupid, petty shit, like celebrities and, yes, houses. But what the typical Democrat supports is, gasp, very much in line with what most Americans support--withdrawal from Iraq, universal healthcare, decreasing the number of unwanted pregnancies, etc.

The point of this speech was to lay it out for viewers to see, instead of words like Democrats just want to tax all your money and give it to Canada.

And boo for saying reasonable people can disagree on gay marriage. They can't.

Posted by: Russell | August 28, 2008 11:49 PM

Yes, they can! See....

"Am I the only one who thought it was boring? That is lacked substance? That it was just more of the same?"

Yes.
Yes you are.

*Pat Buchanan* just called it the best convention speech he's ever seen.

That and the "personal responsibility" stuff was all I had trouble getting excited about.

I have a feeling this and the clean coal/nuclear stuff will be the details most likely to get the dander up on the web tomorrow. But, why is the personal responsibility stuff so off? First off, he's basically continuing a theme from the Clinton administration, so it's not some radical departure for a Democrat (wise policy or not). But, he couched it in a larger narrative about how the government has it's job to do too (shades of the Clintonian "work hard and play by the rules" rhetoric). But, what's objectionable about that? The problem with the Republicans is not that they same that individuals need to be responsible; it's that the GOP doesn't want government to be responsible at all, that it wants to completely leave the individual to the cruel and random forces of the world.

Josh R., it's good politics and he phrased it in an unobjectionable way. But don't ask me to get excited for when he panders to centrists and Republican leaners, any more than they get excited when he talks about the rights of gays and lesbians.

Josh R., it's good politics and he phrased it in an unobjectionable way. But don't ask me to get excited for when he panders to centrists and Republican leaners, any more than they get excited when he talks about the rights of gays and lesbians.

But why is that a pander?

This was a serious speech for serious people and serious times. It brilliantly echoed, rather than merely restating, the themes of his campaign from the beginning: inclusiveness, post-partisanship, mutual responsibility.

I love how calm and centered Obama is. There he was, walking out to give the most important speech of his life in front of 85,000 people, plus millions more watching, and he was as cool and unruffled as if he were standing in his own living room. Steady as a rock: no fidgets, no tremor in his voice, no trembling in his hands, no racing ahead or stepping on applause, no trace of nervousness at all. The man knows who he is.

I was really hoping that he'd do something for party unity and say something to the many women who are hurting from sexism in the primaries

He didn't have to, Yappa. He did plenty, as did the rest of the speakers all week. That sound you hear is the bus leaving you and the rest of the dead-enders behind. The Clintons are on board. Their rational supporters are on board. The people who wanted Obama to personally get on his knees and kiss the feet of the PUMAs are going to be disappointed.

There's still time to get on, and I guarantee it's going to be a lot more fun on the bus than it will be when you look around and realize that the party's over. Your bruised ego is rapidly becoming self-inflicted.

"The point of this speech was to lay it out for viewers to see, instead of words like Democrats just want to tax all your money and give it to Canada."

You'll all be sorry when tax dollars build that super highway connecting Canada and Mexico!

In all seriousness, I am not confused by what goes in a speech and what goes on a website. Maybe I'm fooling myself with expectations that were too high. I adored Obama's speech in 2004 and knew he couldn't (and shouldn't) possibly repeat that.

But I found the speech less than inspirational and found it no different than a tepid Bush State of the Union (just on our side and without the human-animal hybrids).

A line about the capital gains tax does not equal substance. I mean, it does, but not enough to wow me.

I think there was a compromise between sweeping oratory and substance and we got a weak compromise that I found unsastifying.

But why is that a pander?

It's not, if you think that Democrats have a problem with relying on government to help us without having the responsibility to fulfill our side of the bargain.

If you don't think that, I think the implication can be slightly resented.

Seitz:

Ouch.

Seitz, calm the hell down. Yappa didn't say anything approaching that. I would hate to think that we're going to be fighting the Clinton-Obama wars through November and beyond.

A sweeping, vital, clear-eyed vision for the future, delivered by a remarkable man whose very life embodies the change he promises--the American promise, that fundamental but fraying social compact that has carried us so far, and which we can renew once more, if we only seize it.

For me, the key takeaway from Obama's speech was one word: "Enough!" Enough! Enough of the lies, the fear, the greed and the ignorance and the failure. We're better than that. We must be better. That basic choice could not have been laid out any clearer than it was tonight.

I was actually impressed that he went far enough to strongly support civil unions, and implicitly support gay marriage-he called out Christians who refuse even the most basic human decency toward homosexual people, which is more than most politicians are bold enough to do.

Complaints about lack of specifics on policy details are nothing but red herrings. This was an convention speech by the candidate. Find me a candidate in history who has given this speech at his convention with flip charts, graphs and handouts. Go to his web site. Read the specifics. Read the analysis of the specifics by the Brookings institution or Tax Policy Center.

I like the "personal responsibility" line. And the line that gov't isn't responsible for everything, nor can it solve everything. He believes it, it's no pander. It's part of his appeal to conservatives and moderates. It's part of why he's not so easy to pin down ideologically. And it's just obviously true.

The Obama camp said there'd be elements of a Reagan speech in there, and I'm thinking that was it. That and the optimism, I suppose.

I also loved how the counter attacks were pulled off. Making "a big election about small things". Great great line. That's what the Republican campaign style, since Bush, has become. Yes, with a major assist from the media.

"The Obama camp said there'd be elements of a Reagan speech in there, and I'm thinking that was it. That and the optimism, I suppose."

Yeah. ME, I was expecting "the city on a hill," inasmuch as he was delivering from the mile-high city.

Obama was certainly wrong about one thing. After reading many of these comments, it is quite apparent that we are a nation of whiners. I guess that many people actually did think that Obama was the Messiah. Sorry folks, he's just a brilliant, mortal, politician.

Seitz, calm the hell down. Yappa didn't say anything approaching that. I would hate to think that we're going to be fighting the Clinton-Obama wars through November and beyond.

This wasn't Yappa's first post. She's been concern trolling here for a while.

Honestly, as an independent who voted for Obama in the primaries, I'd call this a stand-up triple. I liked much of the speech, but a few things struck me as off.

For one, the speech wasn't well-organized. I thought that there would have been better flow overall if he said the same things in different order (I was certain he was going to launch into foreign policy ten minutes before he actually did).

For another, I think he should have hit much harder on foreign policy. He's running against a guy who still refers to Czechoslovakia in the present tense. I'm not as up on foreign policy as some, so I can't rattle off McCain's foreign blunders (without getting into Iraq, of course). I bet most Americans can't even name as much as I. I felt like Obama could have hit much more on foreign policy, and could have worked harder to show that he is the one with a better grasp of foreign policy.

Overall, a solid speech, and again a stand-up triple to use a baseball metaphor. But I'm going to have to say that overall, Schweitzer had the best speech overall (hey, I watch C-SPAN), with Hillary just a half-step behind him (he just had a tiny bit more energy going on, though her snark made it damn close).

Russell, you may not like that Obama's not hitching his wagon to Gay Marriage, but please note that in a speech that didn't have to mention the issue Obama went out of his way to say that anyone who doesn't grant civil unions to their gay fellow citizens is an a-hole. In his big prime-time speech. That's not nothing.

An outsider's point of view: not great oratory, but a solid speech.

I really don't know how it's possible to complain about the lack of specifics. Indeed, the laundry list of promises (yep, it did remind me of some Bush state of the Union speeches) and the jabs at the Republicans weighted it down. So, what more could one want? The names of the co-sponsors of the laws to come? Dates and budget codes?

Actually, I think he may have consciously been trying to avoid the great oratory and yet more criticism that he's nothing but an orator. He concentrated on conveying his political philosophy in simple terms, and I think he was very effective, and slipped in a lot of substance.

again a stand-up triple to use a baseball metaphor.

No no no. It was more like a ground-rule double.

There was nothing wrong with the speech I just thought it would be bigger I was hoping for St.Crispen's day call to arms but I guess the campaign decided to dial it down after the rockstar criticism. For anyone other than Kennedy, King or maybe the best Bill Clinton this was a great speech. That I am somewhat disappointed shows how high Obama has set the bar for himself.

I guess I'm a nerd. His 2004 DNC speech did nothing for me, and I had the same reaction to most of his formal campaign "speeches". (Well, except for his 2006 speech on religion and the March 18th Philly speech.)

It's more satisfying when he ditches soaring rhetoric for details, and not just policy stuff. I was surprised to hear a clear denigration of "trickle down" economics and the myth of of the "bootstraps" meritocracy. I wish, though, that the line "It's time for them to own their failure" could have been emphasized more ...

I'm old enough to have watched JFK's inaugural address and MLK's "I Have a Dream" as they were delivered. This speech ranked alongside them rhetorically, as well as digging pretty deep into substance, and confronting the opposition head on. It was virtuoso political oratory.

The so-called personal responsibility stuff isn't pandering. It's a black thing. The call for parents to turn off the television and start reading to their kids and raising them right may indeed appeal to centrists and conservatives--code words for white people--but it's a call I've heard time and time again starting when I was a boy myself in the early 80s. Even Chuck D was bellowing about it on one of PE's early and better albums. The only people who get upset by this are middle class white liberals, i.e., most of the people who read these sort of well-intentioned but fundamentally white magazines. Last night Obama toned it DOWN for this mostly white audience. Listen to Obama's father's day speech when he utters essentially the same lines but in more detail and--key difference--to his home audience here on the South Side: you never heard so much assent and praise be. If Obama was guilty of pandering to anyone last night, it's to all the black ladies in big orange Sunday hats out there. You gotta remember that culturally speaking, almost all African-Americans are (or were, for obvious and regrettable historical reasons) southerners: they're not Republicans, but they're far more church-going and conservative than liberals realize. Hence the common ground and appeal of this candidacy.

The only people who get upset by this are middle class white liberals, i.e., most of the people who read these sort of well-intentioned but fundamentally white magazines.

Did you have the last issue of Harper's in mind when you wrote that?

.... hear is the bus leaving you and the rest of the dead-enders behind.....Seitz

....a remarkable man whose very life embodies the change he promises--the American promise....raft87 12:39 AM

Thumbs down on Barack's meatless speech. The guy has no credibility because he's never done anything remotely relevant to being President. The appalling waste of money for his coronation shows just how out of touch he is. Next.

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