well, it certainly doesn't seem to help this arc that mark salter is the actual writer in question. i believe the last thing mccain actually wrote himself -- and not too well, as i recall -- was that essay upon his return.

so i guess the even better question is: who would you believe more, someone who actually communicates their own beliefs / ideas / emotions, or someone who farms that out?

John McCain, a former prisoner of war, would not sttop to such outrageous tactics

McCain also cheated during the Saddleback shindig, first by not being in a "cone of silence" as agreed, and then by not acknowledging that he wasn't in one, when Warren asked him how he liked it. Then his spokesperson, with a straight face apparently, is all offended that anyone could question McCain's lies because he was, you know, "a former prisoner of war."

Is the Obama campaign going to make an issue of either McCain's lies or his war record? Are all possible lines of attack against McCain off limits now because the press has decided that McCain should never be criticized about anything?

I'm particularly intrigued by this "former prisoner of war" crap: I remember many a pundit explaining to us rubes that Kerry brought the swiftboating attacks upon himself because he made his Vietnam service an issue. Shouldn't McCain's war record now be an issue? Like his collaboration with the Vietcong in producing anti-American propaganda videos? Sure, sure, I can understand that anyone who's being tortured will do anything he asked to do. But it's still legitimate to point out that McCain did not put "Country First" during his captivity.

Rove has taught us all that the best way to attack an opponent is to take his biggest perceived advantage and turn it into a disadvantage. McCain claims the presidency as his rightful reward for having suffered for us as a former prisoner of war. It's only apt and proper to examine those years. Let's see what fellow POWs have to say, perhaps track down his captors for a Nightline Special.

____________________________________________

McCain claims the presidency as his rightful reward for having suffered for us as a former prisoner of war

It would appear to most conservatives that McCain claims the presidency is his right reward for courting the MSM, being a "maverick", partnering up with liberal politicians to oppose Republicans on a regular basis, moving to the center or to the left at the drop of a hat, embracing global warming, and otherwise stabbing the conservative constintuency of the Republican base in the back. Which is not a convincing case to most conservatives.

It seems like the current evidence is that the story is not from Solzhnetisyn's Gulag Archipelago, but rather a story that he used to tell, that was reprinted in a number of Orthodox prayer guides and spiritually inspirational works. When I searched the google books of Gulag, I couldn't find it.

No wonder Hillary thought McCain passed the commander-in-chief test. They both like to make shit up.

I have no problem believing that McCain is lying but I cannot for a moment imagine him reading the Gulag Archipelago.

In any event, it would be useful to know the how the North Vietnamese high command felt about Christians. Their enemies in Saigon included many Catholics, but I never heard that the ARVN hated Christians in general.

It's also useful to recall that in all wars, POW guards tend to be losers. The good troops are at the front.

Interesting that he kept the subject of the 2000 speech ambiguous, and now claims the story as his own. Perhaps it always was. Perhaps he has come to believe it was. Or perhaps he has gotten away with it for 8 years and thinks it is safe to claim.

You people just don't get it. That prison guard was with Solzhenitsyn in the gulag!

Seriously though, McCain's admitted mental state in captivity should make any recollection from that time suspect. ''Through long periods of solitary he kept his mind occupied by recalling details of old movies, philosophy and books,'' the doctors wrote. Mr. McCain said he had strayed pretty ''far out'' and had referred to it as ''mentally deteriorating.''

You know, McCain has talked about physical abuse, hunger, and untreated medical conditions too--just like Solzhenitsyn did! And just like Primo Levi and Martin Niemoeller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Elie Wiesel and Nelson Mandela and Viktor Frankl and....

Even if McCain is lying/dissembling/misremembering with this story ... it merely makes him more Reaganesque!

Recall that Saint Ronny often described plots/events from his movies as if they were real events he'd experience, and most notoriously "remembered" being at the liberation of a wwii concentration camp when he'd merely seen footage of it.

it seems that the first time this cross story showed up, McCain told it about an American prisoner (not himself) it has since morphed, he is now the prisoner. Is it dementia or lies?

Story originally came from:
Alexander Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" - 1973 (of whom McCain is a fan)

THE 2000 CAMPAIGN; Excerpt From McCain's Speech:
Many years ago a scared American prisoner of war in Vietnam was tied in torture ropes by his tormentors and left alone in an empty room to suffer through the night. Later in the evening a guard he had never spoken to entered the room and silently loosened the ropes to relieve his suffering. Just before morning, that same guard came back and re-tightened the ropes before his less humanitarian comrades returned. He never said a word to the grateful prisoner, but some months later, on a Christmas morning, as the prisoner stood alone in the prison courtyard, the same good Samaritan walked up to him and stood next to him for a few moments. Then with his sandal, the guard drew a cross in the dirt. Both prisoner and guard both stood wordlessly there for a minute or two, venerating the cross, until the guard rubbed it out and walked away.

so is it dementia, alzheimer's or lies?

NY Times 2000 link to McCain’s Nov 2000 speech: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904EFDE1239F93AA15751C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

A senior citizen who I often assist called this morning and I told her about McCain's story. The first thing she said was, "Is he another Hillary?" That is why this episode is important; it immediately brings to mind instances where politicians have simply made stuff up. But even Hillary didn't use Christ's bloody cross. We deserve a response from McCain.

Oh dear God are you kidding me? We all know that half of the anecdotes in ANY politician's speeches are bullshit. If you don't think that Obama, Hilary, Edwards--ANYONE campaigning for ANY type of political position is making up this type of thing in their speeches, then you are crazy.

Your onto something Ezra.

Was McCain shot down, or did he lift that story from another pilot?

Was McCain actually injured, or did he lie about that too, taking the story from a WWII veteran.

Whats next, will McCain claim he went into North Vietnam on Christmas on the orders of Nixon and a CIA guy gave him his hat?

Nope, this making up of stories is not the behavior of every politician. Can you cite any Obama has made up? It was true of Hillary, and her husband (the preposterous yarn about church burnings in Arkansas, among many many falsehoods) and now apparently McCain. But does everyone do it? No -- it's actually pathological. Some of the stories are so easily exposed. Remember, making up stories is not the same thing as "flip flopping", dishonestly saying you are going to do something in office and then backing out, or any number of other things politicians do. This deserves to be considered in its own category

An Obama made up story?

How about the one he made up where he said he didn't vote down a bill that would protect babies delivered from botched abortions while still protecting a woman's right to choose. Truth is, he did.

Or how about the one where he isn't taking money from Big Oil. Truth is, he does.

megan mcardle got this right. there's no way to prove the story is false, and it's not really implausible, so there's no reason mccain will ever need to address it. and if you somehow proved he lied, so what? he was still imprisoned and tortured for years. these kinds of smears only work on democrats, stop wasting your time.

From Byron York:

You've probably seen that there are some out there in the blogosphere questioning the authenticity of John McCain's "cross in the dirt" story, which McCain told Saturday night at the Saddleback Summit. But there doesn't seem much mention of the fact that McCain had a lot of fellow POWs in Vietnam, and they can be asked for their recollections. So I called Orson Swindle, a fellow POW who is campaigning for McCain, to ask him about it.

"I recall John telling that story when we first got together in 1971, when were talking about every conceivable thing that had ever happened to us when we were in prison" Swindle told me a few minutes ago. "Most of us had been kept apart or in small groups. Then, in 1970, they moved us into the big cell. And when we all got to see each other and talk to each other directly, instead of tapping through walls, we had 24 hours a day, seven days a week to talk to each other, and we shared stories. I vaguely recall that story being told, among other stories."

"I remember it from prison," Swindle continued. "There were several stories similar to that in which guards — a very few, I might add — showed compassion to the prisoners. It was rare, and I never met one, but some of the guys did."

As for the people who are questioning McCain's account, Swindle said, "That's garbage. These people are desperate."

There you go, first-hand verification from a fellow POW; but I guess he's making it all up as well. You know those people who suffered for years for their country, can't really be trusted . . .

Oh, here's another one from that lying bastard congressional medal of honor recipient Bud Day:

"after escaping from a North Vietnamese prison during the war. When he was recaptured, a Vietnamese captor broke his arm and said, "I told you I would make you a cripple."

The break was designed to shatter Mr. Day's will. He had survived in prison on the hope that one day he would return to the United States and be able to fly again. To kill that hope, the Vietnamese left part of a bone sticking out of his arm, and put him in a misshapen cast. This was done so that the arm would heal at "a goofy angle," as Mr. Day explained. Had it done so, he never would have flown again.

But it didn't heal that way because of John McCain. Risking severe punishment, Messrs. McCain and Day collected pieces of bamboo in the prison courtyard to use as a splint. Mr. McCain put Mr. Day on the floor of their cell and, using his foot, jerked the broken bone into place. Then, using strips from the bandage on his own wounded leg and the bamboo, he put Mr. Day's splint in place.

Years later, Air Force surgeons examined Mr. Day and complimented the treatment he'd gotten from his captors. Mr. Day corrected them. It was Dr. McCain who deserved the credit. Mr. Day went on to fly again.

Another story I heard over dinner with the Days involved Mr. McCain serving as one of the three chaplains for his fellow prisoners. At one point, after being shuttled among different prisons, Mr. Day had found himself as the most senior officer at the Hanoi Hilton. So he tapped Mr. McCain to help administer religious services to the other prisoners.

Today, Mr. Day, a very active 83, still vividly recalls Mr. McCain's sermons. "He remembered the Episcopal liturgy," Mr. Day says, "and sounded like a bona fide preacher." One of Mr. McCain's first sermons took as its text Luke 20:25 and Matthew 22:21, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Mr. McCain said he and his fellow prisoners shouldn't ask God to free them, but to help them become the best people they could be while serving as POWs. It was Caesar who put them in prison and Caesar who would get them out. Their task was to act with honor. . . .

Mr. Day recalls with pride Mr. McCain stubbornly refusing to accept special treatment or curry favor to be released early, even when gravely ill. Mr. McCain knew the Vietnamese wanted the propaganda victory of the son and grandson of Navy admirals accepting special treatment. "He wasn't corruptible then," Mr. Day says, "and he's not corruptible today."

Uh, wasn't Day one of the smear artists who went after McCain in 2000? Pretty sure he was one of the guys spreading the "Brainwashed in Vietnam" meme back then. That certainly doesn't jive with the story of the man who saved his arm and ability to fly. Of course we do know that Mr. Day has done some very shady things since then with the swift boaters and of late saying "The Muslims say we better kneel or they're going to kill us" which isn't a very encouraging way to make the rest of your statements sound reasonable.

The transparent desperation in Ezra Klein's article and in some of the posted comments would be much more enjoyable for its comedic value if that desperation weren't so pathetic and mean-spirited. I mean really, Obama must have tanked horribly at Saddleback for his supporters to even consider making the ridiculous claim (above, 3rd post down) that "it's still legitimate to point out that McCain did not put "Country First" (while being brutaly tortured) during his captivity."

Imagine the backlash if the Obama campaign were to be linked to such a statement! The ten points this singularly unqualified candidate is already going to lose by would become 30+ overnight.

The transparent desperation in Ezra Klein's article and in some of the posted comments would be much more enjoyable for its comedic value if that desperation weren't so pathetic and mean-spirited. I mean really, Obama must have tanked horribly at Saddleback for his supporters to even consider making the ridiculous claim (above, 3rd post down) that "it's still legitimate to point out that McCain did not put "Country First" (while being brutaly tortured) during his captivity."

Imagine the backlash if the Obama campaign were to be linked to such a statement! The ten points this singularly unqualified candidate is already going to lose by would become 30+ overnight.

Tommer, you are not getting the distinction between ordinary lying (I am not the father of that child) and making up stories, or better put, telling tall tales, spinning yarns, whatever you want to call it. THAT latter is what is so distinctive, so a characteristic of Hillary. Not just the tarmac story, but one that I'm sure she never expected to have truth-squadded -- the one where, when she was a young girl, she experienced the depths of discrimination when a goalie on the opposing soccer team said, "we don't like people like you.." Never mind the moronicly infantile portrayal of discrimination in that story, but it was blown up by the fact that there was no girls' soccer when she was growing up. There were other similar anecdotes told during her campaign that were not investigated but had the reek of phoniness about them. The one where a Harvard law prof. told her, "We don't want any more women up here...." Okay, whatever. McCain's cross story might be of this type. Remember, people who fabricate elaborate anecdotes to serve didactic or self glorifying purposes keep doing it. If McCain does this, others will come along, never fear.