What's interesting is that, though my income isn't high (by Obama's standards) I surprisingly find that McCain is better for me by more than $2000. I hadn't thought that my own tax situation was relevant to the election, but you've corrected me.

Thanks for the link -- I have an easier-to-remember version of the site up at ObamaTaxCut.com now, FYI.

none of this matters any more, because whatever tax plans mccain and obama had are going to change with the scale of federal bailouts taking place.

The real change seems to be somewhere between $200k and $500k, but we can raise things in increments to find out where the inflection point is.

What's really egregious, however, is that McCain is cutting taxes even more for those in the high income brackets. I can understand -- though disagree with -- the argument that the Bush tax cuts should be left in place, leaving those in high income brackets to pay the same artificially low rates that they pay now. But to draft a plan that would cut their taxes even more under the present circumstances? Completely nuts.

@Tyro

What's really egregious, however, is that McCain is cutting taxes even more for those in the high income brackets.

I've got a good visual of this here - http://alchemytoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccaincuts1.png - this shows that not only does the top quintile get the highest percentage increase in take-home income from McCain, the top 20% of taxpayers also get 400% (or so) more tax cuts in real dollars than the bottom 80%.

@howard

What's more likely: that McCain will get his tax cuts through a Democratic congress that favor the wealthy? Or that Obama will get his lower/middle-class-targeted tax cuts that will provide immediate economic stimulus and help those going into foreclosure through the same congress?

That should be the gut rejoinder to anyone who argues (like McCain) that Obama's just BS'ing on tax cuts and won't actually prioritize his plan or oppose congressional tax hikes. It's much more reasonable to think Obama will be able to get done what he wants to get done given that he'll face less opposition.

What's interesting is that, though my income isn't high (by Obama's standards) I surprisingly find that McCain is better for me by more than $2000.

Obama's tax cuts are skewed towards families, IIRC, so if you're a relatively affluent single, the McCain plan might favor you more.

Obama's tax cuts are a lie, because of his spending programs. If he is planning to provide free health care for millions of people and all illegal immigrants, he simply cannot deliver on the supposed middle class tax cut. A candidate's spending plans are much more important to look at than his tax "cuts." It is crap to believe he will simply tax the rich. That is for the credulous, and the very young at heart.

anonymous, you're simply wrong, but since it's ancient history now it hardly matters.

zach, my point is that what's "likely" is that all bets are off regarding taxes: the staggering degree of expenditure associated with the financial crisis, once fully absorbed, is going to require higher taxes, period.

now, it's not impossible that those higher taxes in general are a year or two away but fundamentally, on the level of what's going to happen to your taxes, they are going to go up over the next 4 years: it's unavoidable.

@howard

Agreed to some extent; just saying that Obama's cuts are in line with what an economic bailout should entail and will work with gvmt attempts to buy out mortgages or whatever ends up happening whereas McCain's cuts are divorced from immediate stimulus (even if you believe that tax cuts for the rich help in the long run).

@latts

That's not true at all; the vast majority of the part of McCain's middle class cuts comes by an increased child credit, whereas Obama's cuts are less dependent on whether or not someone has children. This is great for McCain since it lets him be able to say he'll have bigger cuts for, say, a married family with 3 kids at 150K, but not spend much money on tax cuts for people at or below that income because, in reality, a very small number of taxpayers have more than one dependent child.

This is pretty awesome, Zach! I'm a big fan of people doing creative web stuff to make budgetary matters easier to grasp.

wow, as a single person with no dependents I will pay about $200 more with Obama and about $200 less with McCain. If I got married to someone who also earns what I earns - we'd get back about $4,000 dollars under Obama's plan. (and under McCain's). Think about that - if I date someone who makes the same amount as I make we each pay $200 more in taxes. If we got married, we'd together get a $4,000 decrease. What's with that?

I'm voting for Obama but there is somthing seriously wrong with this picture.

widget simply doesn't work for me....

All of this is off the table post-bailout.

zach, don't get me wrong: i'd rather have obama and his team making the decisions, but, as marx tells us, men make their own history, but they do not make it under circumstances of their own choosing.

The real dishonesty of McCain's ads is not the claim that Obama wants to raise taxes. The lie is that Obama's policies won't help lower income and middle income families. That is why Obama must run health care ads. If people think Obama will raise their taxes but stop the rise in health care premiums they will probably accept that deal.

Employed people often don't have a strong perception of what their healthcare premiums are -- they are just part of the paycheck. Taxes are better known. So the deal won't fly. Obama needs to just come out and ask people to give up money for the good of others. Why should you renovate your apartment or take that vacation cruise when others are languishing in emergency rooms?

Anonymous,
Have you seen Obama and Bidens charitable giving?

And they want us to pay more?

Yes, anonymous, I have. Their children do not go to public schools, either. But still, should you be able to send yours to a private school when some of the public schools are so bad? We're in it together, they tell us. Like a family. But you need to know your place. The Bidens can redo their front steps in travertine marble, but that level of luxury is not for you. Know your place. God love ya.

fans of "car talk" know that there was once something called the "andy letter," in which he discussed how listening to tom and ray had proven that two people who don't know what they're talking about know even less than one person who doesn't know what he's talking about.

he coulda been talking about anonymous and anonymous.

We're talking about the self-exempting class that always arises when the "in it together shared prosperity shared responsibility to each according to his need" talk takes over. That exempt class was called the nomenklatura in the old USSR. It didn't get a name till it was on the way out. So here, since it is ascending, it has no name. The Bidens are in it and you are not.

How can Obama claim to "cut taxes for the working poor when clearly about 40% don't even pay taxes?

If he's talking about refundable credits like EIC, then he's simply promoting a federal welfare program.