Feeds: 
symbol identifies content for paid subscribers only.
DEBATE LIVEBLOGGING.
10:36: Debate over. Tonight was supposed to be John McCain's night, but it was the first clear debate win Obama has scored over the course of this campaign -- including the primary. McCain, as it turned out, was badly disadvantaged by the format. The debate was more physical than previous encounters. The candidates were mobile, as were the cameras. And McCain, for reasons of age and injuries and height, has a less commanding physical presence than Obama. He's stiff and awkward. The constantly shifting cameras featured a number of behind-the-shoulder shots, which highlighted his thinning hair and hunched posture. The combination left McCain looking old ill at ease, while Obama seemed energetic and in control of the space. It was the clearest Nixon-to-Kennedy contrast we've seen.
Moreover, the voters changed the tone of the debate. You can ignore Tom Brokaw's question, but not a voter's query. So McCain couldn't easily pivot to attacks. Which meant McCain couldn't attack that often. He had to continually explain his plans and proposals. But that left only the substance of his answers, and McCain's fundamental problem in this election is that the specifics of his agenda are simply not responsive to the urgency of the moment.
10:29: Good catch by Think Progress. McCain may say that he looked at Putin and saw KGB, but when Bush looked at Putin and saw peace, McCain said, "On Russia, I'd give him very high marks...I’d give him an A."
10:19: It's remarkable that McCain can accuse Barack Obama of abrogating basic tenets of sound global leadership by promising to kill bin Laden but when asked about Russia, says that he looks at Putin and sees nothing but "KGB." The score card appears to be that Obama will prosecute the hunt for al Qaeda while McCain will restart the Cold War. Which sounds more responsible to you?
10:13: On the Pakistan question: If McCain is right, and the Pakistani government doesn't want us decapitating bin Laden, then doesn't our stated policy that we'll kill him if they don't make it more likely that they'll do it so we won't? Meanwhile, a targeted strike to kill an international fugitive is not attacking Pakistan. Pakistan is a country. Bin Laden is a person. If there's a bar fight in Los Angeles, the guy who threw the first punch didn't attack California.
10:09: In the future, Obama should probably use South Dakota as his example of damaging credit industry deregulation. Not Delaware, where his running mate is from.
10:04: Brokaw says we need to define the "Obama Doctrine" and the "McCain Doctrine." If only there were some magazine out there that had done both...
10:00: Long health care exchange. And what a difference a bit of practice makes. Obama has been talking about health care this week. And so tonight, when it came up, he was clean and concise. He explained his plan easily and clearly. McCain hit him on government involvement, and he agreed: Obama does want government involvement to crack down on insurers. And the tracking poll shot up. Women tracked the top border for almost the whole answer. McCain's words barely budged voters. He was stumbling and inchoate. His attacks fell flat. he hit on mandates repeatedly, which just gave Obama license to say that his mandate was for kids, and McCain voted against S-CHIP. The follow-up asked if health care was a right. Obama said it was. His reform proposal doesn't reflect that judgment, but it's nice to hear him voice it.
The broader point here is that Obama is finding his voice on health care. And McCain is flummoxed by it, and voters are responding to it. This is an important issue to the country, and beyond that, a winning issue for Democrats.
9:55: MANDATES!
9:44: McCain says "Joe Lieberman and I introduced the first legislation to deal with carbon emissions. And we forced a vote on it. That's the good news. The bad news is we lost." And the even worse news is that I took my name off the bill and flipped on the issue because action on global warming was unpopular with the Republican base. And now his positions make no sense. Meanwhile, give Obama props for a straightforward hit on drilling. "We can't solve the problem if our only solution is to use more fossil fuels." As my friend called out, "weird! It's like he understands the problem!"
9:38: Brokaw asks if the candidates will take on "SocialSecurityandMedicare." They are not the same program. They do not require the same remedies. They do not pose the same threat. Here Brokaw, peep my graph:
I'm not one of those folks who think it illegitimate to bring up entitlement reform. But you have to be accurate about the situation. Social Security is not a serious problem. Medicare's problems are a function of spending growth in the broader health care system. McCain, to his credit, at least separated Social Security from Medicare, and admitted the latter to be a tougher problem. But then he just offered some blather about "a commission."
9:35: Methinks the elderly Republican deregulator shouldn't bring up Herbert Hoover.
9:28: McCain gets his first question "from the internet." Would that it were, "Senator, please explain, specifically, how this question got from me to you."
9:26: "You're paying $3.80 here in Nashville for gasoline," says Obama. That's some good staff work. Obama also puts health care as his second priority, behind energy independence.
9:24: Give McCain props for some "straight talk" here. Asked his top priority among entitlement reform, health care, and energy independence, he chooses...entitlement reform. And says tomorrow's retirees can't have the benefits given to today's retirees. That's not only substantively wrong, but politically unpopular. It's a maverick twofer!
9:20: Asked how either party could be trusted with the people's money, Obama says, in part, that he's still going to spend some money on "key priorities." His first priority? Health care. And in response, the CNN ticker running at the bottom of the screen shot upward. All in all, a moment that made me happy.
9:16: Obama mentions his speech to Wall Street from a year ago. It's worth rereading:
We have not come this far because we practice survival of the fittest. America is America because we believe in creating a framework in which all can succeed. Our free market was never meant to be a free license to take whatever you can get, however you can get it. And so from time to time, we have put in place certain rules of the road to make competition fair, and open, and honest. We have done this not to stifle prosperity or liberty, but to foster those things and ensure that they are shared and spread as widely as possible.In recent years, we have seen a dangerous erosion of the rules and principles that have allowed our market to work and our economy to thrive. Instead of thinking about what's good for America or what's good for business, a mentality has crept into certain corners of Washington and the business world that says, "what's good for me is good enough."...The quick kill is prized without regard to long-term consequences for the financial system and the economy. And while this may benefit the few who push the envelope as far as it will go, it's doesn't benefit America and it doesn't benefit the market. Just because it makes money doesn't mean it's good for business.
9:11: There's something about the camera angles that's making McCain look extremely small. Folks talk about his extreme skill at Townhalls, but I'm not seeing it in his body language. He's not fluid in his movements, doesn't inhabit his space. That may be an outcome of his age, his injuries, or his nerves, but it's not working for him.
9:06: That's unexpected. McCain's answers a question about the quickest way to help economically struggling Americans with..."energy independence." Presumably, this is a campaign judgment that McCain had some advantage on energy back in the summer, and they need to move back to that. But it's an awkward fit. Also, McCain will not make Brokaw his Treasury Secretary.
9:01: According to CNN's hypnotic line tracker, men don't seem to like it when Tom Brokaw starts talking.
COMMENTS (46)
. . . men don't seem to like it when Tom Brokaw starts talking.
He reminds them of their mothers.
Posted by: C.S. | October 7, 2008 9:04 PM
why is tom so mumbly?
Posted by: kay | October 7, 2008 9:08 PM
Whenever McCain hastily breathes into his mic, I can almost feel it on the back of my neck, and it's freaking me the fuck out.
Posted by: JoePo | October 7, 2008 9:08 PM
the PETA pigs are freaking me out!
Posted by: kay | October 7, 2008 9:12 PM
Thanks for that, JoePo. Now I do too.
I need brain bleach after listening to this jackass.
Posted by: alli | October 7, 2008 9:14 PM
Initial reactions:
McCain looked Obama in the eye when they greeted each other (did anyone really think he wouldn't?), but he seemed to be blinking mightly.
Brokaw just reprimanded Obama (rather sternly) for speaking over the time limit. Will McCain be similarly be chastised should he go overtime? Is Brokaw keeping track?
Posted by: raff | October 7, 2008 9:14 PM
"not surprisingly" seems like a bad choice.
Posted by: Dean | October 7, 2008 9:15 PM
He has the build of a turtle. John McCain is becoming a Gabriel Garcia Marquez character.
Posted by: JoePo | October 7, 2008 9:18 PM
Brokaw asked my question: what's more important Energy or Health Care?
And Obama's answer was what I suspected: Energy #1, Health Care #2.
A hugely important Q&A.
Posted by: wisewon | October 7, 2008 9:28 PM
Are you getting a load of the kid behind Obama who is clearly not paying attention at all?
Posted by: bob | October 7, 2008 9:40 PM
Is McCain's answer to how to fix Social Security-
1. It's easy.
2. Bipartisanship
?
Posted by: Alex | October 7, 2008 9:46 PM
Brokaw asked my question: what's more important Energy or Health Care?
And Obama's answer was what I suspected: Energy #1, Health Care #2.
A hugely important Q&A.
Hmmm. I would have put getting the fuck out of Iraq first over all of that. Shame that 43 min in neither of them has brought it up as part of our gargantuan debt.
Posted by: Paula | October 7, 2008 9:46 PM
Glasses, suit, buzz cut, glassy eyes. Not listening even a little.
Posted by: bob | October 7, 2008 9:46 PM
NUCLEAR POWER?!?!? Who the hell is telling McCain that he can win votes by being even more pro-nuclear power than Obama? WHO ARE these voters who say, "gee, I might vote for Obama, but he only mildly supports nuclear power!"?
Posted by: tom veil | October 7, 2008 9:47 PM
To correct Obama on his statement about how the computer was invented by government scientists for defense purposes to help people communicate-- the first American computer, ENIAC, was created for defense purposes to help compute ballistic trajectory tables.
Posted by: Tyro | October 7, 2008 9:48 PM
Did Obama say something like the following (paraphrasing):
"Oil companies have 60 million acres that they're not utilizing: we'll tell them 'use it or lose it'"
So, is he saying his administration would be for government expropriation of private property? This is some new eminent domain territory here...
Posted by: TWM | October 7, 2008 9:48 PM
GREAT question on health care. Good thing I'm not on stage or I would give a very nerdy answer about "normal goods."
Also - "that one?" What is he thinking?
Posted by: alli | October 7, 2008 9:51 PM
I'll make a prediction right now. Relative to Palin's 'success' being defined is being able to put a coherent sentence together, McCain's 'success' tonight will be based on whether he lost his cool or not.
And so far, so good. Yeah, almost everything McCain is saying is bullshit, but we all know that doesn't matter.
As long McCain doesn't blow up, it'll be scored a win tomorrow (with an assist from Brokaw).
Posted by: raff | October 7, 2008 9:52 PM
Audience member: Why do you fuckos insist on making us pay for health care when it should be a fundamental right?
Obama: Because I'm a big chicken. Here's my tepid plan. But it's better than McCain's. Vote for me!
McCain: MANDATES! OOGA-BOOGA! MANDATES! SOCIALEST!!
Posted by: Paula | October 7, 2008 9:54 PM
Now the kid is behind McCain. Not only is he not listening at all, but he is not having a very happy childhood.
Posted by: bob | October 7, 2008 9:55 PM
TWM, he's talking about leases on government land.
Posted by: snarkout | October 7, 2008 9:56 PM
What is up with these fines? Is this true?
Posted by: angryhippopotamus | October 7, 2008 9:59 PM
Eurgh. Obama just realized he shouldn't have used Delaware as an example. Serves him (and Biden) right.
"America is the greatest force for good in the world ... "
I feel like upchucking.
Posted by: Paula | October 7, 2008 10:00 PM
Why are uncommitted male voters in Ohio such stingy bastards?
Posted by: JoePo | October 7, 2008 10:01 PM
It seems to have escaped everybody's attention that under current law, federal oil and gas leases that go undeveloped expire after 5 years, 10 in deep water.
Lots of blather about a problem that doesn't exist.
Posted by: TL | October 7, 2008 10:02 PM
Good to know, thanks. Some of the libertarians at my debate party were turning blue.
Posted by: TWM | October 7, 2008 10:04 PM
How odd. McCain seems unconvincing on turf he should own: foreign policy/war. He's fumbling some words, he's falling back on his "my friends" verbal tic, he's fiddling with his jacket, one hand in his pocket. His body language is horrible, not confidence inspiring.
Posted by: raff | October 7, 2008 10:12 PM
McCain consistently flatlines around neutral, Obama consistently goes into the upper range. McCain does best when he sounds optimistic/idealistic....basically, when he sounds like a Democrat. Remarkably, "cut-and-run" and other national security jibes are falling totally flat. Promoting tax cuts is falling flat. McCain cannot win based on things that got Bush re-elected. His campaign is dead, dead, dead. Obama now needs a dead girl/live boy scenario to lose this.
Posted by: jd | October 7, 2008 10:17 PM
I just figured out why McCain doesn't want to meet with rogue nations. He doesn't know how to speak to anyone he can't address as "my friends".
Posted by: Steven desJardins | October 7, 2008 10:29 PM
W.T.F.?
Brokaw poses his own question:(paraphrasing)
'Answer yes or no: is a Russia, under Putin, a great evil?'
To both candidates' credit, neither said simply 'yes' or 'no', although, it should be noted McCain's intial answer was "maybe" (before elaborating in a rambling manner that, in the end, it was still maybe).
Posted by: raff | October 7, 2008 10:32 PM
McCain just clearly snubbed Obama's handshake. Wait for the Youtube.
Posted by: fumphis | October 7, 2008 10:38 PM
If that's how McCain punches with the gloves off, I think my niece could beat him up. I wanted Obama to pity McCain's loss of honor, but it wouldn't have fit in the format.
I think Obama won, but I'm biased. More importantly, McCain didn't win. He's in big trouble.
Posted by: Seitz | October 7, 2008 10:40 PM
...watching debate wrap-up on PBS & have to say Michael Gerson is a pitiful douchebag.
'...poor John McCain is an innocent victim of the economic fallout. Otherwise, McCain has run an honorable & decent campaign'.
So wrong, for so many reasons.
Posted by: raff | October 7, 2008 10:56 PM
If there's a take-away story from this debate, it's McCain's proposal for the government to bail out mortgage holders. Which may be a great idea, I don't know. But it's hard to see how he pivots back to Ayers and Wright, or more precisely, that he can get maximum traction out of both a polarizing negative attack, and a bold pitch to the middle on the housing crisis.
Posted by: kth | October 7, 2008 11:00 PM
@fumphis:
McCain didn't shake with Obama, but he also initiated the contact with him. I'm not sure it was a deliberate snub.
Posted by: BP in MN | October 7, 2008 11:03 PM
Hmmm. I would have put getting the fuck out of Iraq first over all of that. Shame that 43 min in neither of them has brought it up as part of our gargantuan debt.
Obama talked at length about the money we are spending there. I believe he mentioned 10 billion a month.
Posted by: Mack | October 7, 2008 11:09 PM
This is the first mention I've heard by McCain of Obama's having received a record amount from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. This could have been part of a devastating attack on Obama, but was presented way too late. Obama had no answer to that fact -- nor did McCain coherently connect the dots, which would have meant asking what those entities thought they would get from Obama in return for their largesse. Obama's connection to the corrupt mortgage giants is a far greater vulnerability than Ayers or Wright, imho. But neither McCain nor Palin has the skill to exploit this.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 11:09 PM
how can john mccain engage in diplomacy with hostile leaders when he didnt even have the decency to shake obama's hand?
obama was courteous to cindy mccain, and when he went to shake john mccain's hand....john mccain turned away.
right there.... everything one needs to know about the temperament and decency of john mccain.
barack obama sat calmly and attentively listening, and paying attention while mccain spoke....and when obama spoke, mccain was skulking around the stage, nearly brushing against obama;s jacket, with steam coming out of his ears and nose. what an impatient, dislikable and strange, little man.
for all of the times he used the word, friend, he was disdainful and deeply unfriendly to barack obama.
and when he said that we would be having unexpected conflicts with places we might not be able to find on the map, he must have been talking specifically about his running mate.
john mccain is old and fragile.
he is an old warhorse, who is worn out and shatter-nerved......time for him to be set out in a quiet pasture.
he is ill-suited for the job of president of the united states in the twenty-first century.....and his running mate is a threat to global security.
and john mccain, since you were addressing all of the american people tonight....let me tell you, that many of us are not your...or sarah palin's friend.
dont patronize us at night, after you dishonor barack obama and your runningmate says inciteful and despicable things during the day.
Posted by: jacqueline | October 7, 2008 11:24 PM
So, is he saying his administration would be for government expropriation of private property? This is some new eminent domain territory here...
Oil companies procure leases from the government for mineral exploration. As the situation currently stands, there are over 60 million acres of offshore leases that are unexplored. Leases may be revoked by landlords, especially since mineral rights ultimately belong to the American people.
Posted by: Matthew | October 7, 2008 11:40 PM
Tonight was supposed to be John McCain's night
After his last debate performance? Seriously? Never looked Obama in the eye, gave robotic answers . . . after that performance, this was "supposed to be" John McCain's night?
A "townhall" moderated by Tom Brokaw? After McCain's last debate performance?
Posted by: Kevin S. Willis | October 7, 2008 11:56 PM
mccain was skulking around the stage, nearly brushing against obama;s jacket, with steam coming out of his ears and nose. what an impatient, dislikable and strange, little man.
Hmm. You do have a point. I noticed that, in what little I saw. Tell me more.
he is ill-suited for the job of president of the united states in the twenty-first century.....
I've got to admit, I'm beginning to think you're right. I think you've got a sale!
and his running mate is a threat to global security.
Um, what was that?
let me tell you, that many of us are not your...or sarah palin's friend
Whups. Lost the sale. You know, you had me, there, until you started trash talking Palin. Then I remembered I was voting for her, and not McNugget, anyway.
Not that it matters. Looks like Obama is going to take this. Still, I'm gonna vote. I'm expecting my state to remain an Island of Red in a Sea of Blue next November. Until the tide turns in 2010.
Posted by: Kevin S. Willis | October 8, 2008 12:04 AM
"until you started trash talking sarah palin...."
it is truth-telling, my friend.
truth-telling.
she has crossed the line.
Posted by: jacqueline | October 8, 2008 12:20 AM
Ezra: Meanwhile, a targeted strike to kill an international fugitive is not attacking Pakistan. Pakistan is a country. Bin Laden is a person. If there's a bar fight in Los Angeles, the guy who threw the first punch didn't attack California.
Meanwhile, a targeted strike to kill specific airline passengers and office workers in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon is not attacking the USA. Airline passengers and office workers are people. If there's a bar fight in Islamabad, the guy who threw the first punch didn't attack Pakistan.
Ezra, you're a veritable genius. But I respectfully request that you retract your apparent claim that you would consider Mexican missiles landing on American soil to take out "international fugitives" to NOT be an attack on the USA, because I know that you don't believe any such thing. One would have to either be a traitor or have an IQ of 10 to believe that, and neither applies to you.
Posted by: Rhetoric Buster | October 8, 2008 8:22 AM
"Oil companies have 60 million acres that they're not utilizing: we'll tell them 'use it or lose it'"
So, is he saying his administration would be for government expropriation of private property? This is some new eminent domain territory here...
Posted by: TWM | October 7, 2008 9:48 PM
------------
No, you bloody idiot, it means they'd lose their LEASES TO DRILL ON FEDERAL--NOT PRIVATE--LAND.
Jeez, get some smarts. Bloody dim git.
Posted by: JMarra | October 8, 2008 9:42 AM
By the way, federal oil and gas leases have a "primary term". Offshore it's 5 years in shallow water, 10 years in deep water. If the lease remains undeveloped after the end of the primary term, it expires.
So all the "use it or lose it" chants are advocating current policy. It's a non-issue talking point used by Democratic politicians in order to convince the uninformed that they are Tuff On Big Oil.
Posted by: TL | October 8, 2008 9:57 AM
So?
Why--if oil companies are so innocent and America needs the oil, and Sarah says "drill, baby, drill"--are they STILL sitting on the leases? Don't they fear the expiration? They don't act like it.
Just a-sittin' and a-sittin' there, waitin' for oil to shoot up in price again--so it can be sold to whoever has the money the U.S. doesn't. Like China.
I would imagine the real story is more like "nod and wink" virtually automatic renewals of the leases--the oil companies sitting on them don't feel the need to argue their case. They're not about to lose their leases any time soon, and they probably know it.
Posted by: JMarra | October 8, 2008 10:54 AM