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DEBATE LIVEBLOGGING.
10:33: Debate over. McCain scored the most points, and lost the debate. He was looking to land shots, and often succeeded. But the effort to find openings and vulnerabilities left him with little time to appear presidential. And if he connected with jabs, he never found his knockout blow. Worse, the attacks came at a cost: The angry energy showed on McCain's face as clearly as in his answers. CNN, at least, had the split screen, and McCain was grimacing, twitching, blinking, sighing, smirking, eye-rolling. Scores of YouTubers are, as we speak, constructing videos that will be nothing but a three minute collection of McCain's angry tics. They will make Gore's affectations in 2000 look mild. He looked like nothing so much as a man enduring acute gastrointestinal discomfort.
Obama, for his part, performed well on the substance and seemed less certain on the process. His answer on abortion, health care, and education were crisp and clear. His responses to McCain's more personal attacks were studiedly boring. He didn't look for the counterpunch, but for the clinch. The campaign clearly made a decision: Don't attack. Leave McCain to throw punches on his own. Look like a president, not a candidate. And he almost succeeded. I wouldn't say Obama had his best debate tonight, but then, he didn't need it. He just needed to avoid anything that would interrupt the current dynamics of the campaign, and he succeeded.
10:25: McCain offers a passionate paean to vouchers. "They've been proven," he says. Yep. Proven not to work.
10:22: The debate is happening a bit faster than I can blog it, but the abortion exchange was telling. One of the quiet narratives about McCain is that he might be a social conservative, but he doesn't care. Whether it was an act or the product of his general anger or the real thing, he certainly seemed authentic in his furious denunciation of abortion, and when he attacked the "health of the mother" exemption as something that "pro-abortion groups" have "stretched beyond recognition, my hunch is a lot of women in the audience took a second look at McCain on this.
10:13: In case you were interested in what Joe the Plumber's friends are thinking, the United Association of Plumbers and Pipe Fitters was one of the first unions to endorse Obama:
To meet the challenges of clean water, he recognizes the need to replace and/or upgrade our water treatment and wastewater systems. His support of our position on all of these issues more than justifies our endorsement. We need to support Barack Obama because he provides more than lip service to our concerns.We remain a bi-partisan organization. However, our best hope for clear direction and responsible change in our national government calls for our support of Barack Obama. The economic indicators show a weakening national economy and we need someone to both invigorate our economy and provide hope for our country.
10:07: McCain says he has never, and would never, impose a litmus test on any Supreme Court nominee. Really? The following comes from a 2005 New Yorker profile of John McCain, the accuracy of which has never, to my knowledge, been questioned:
McCain beat George W. Bush in New Hampshire, in a nineteen-point upset, but the storybook campaign ended when the Bush machine retaliated, in the infamous South Carolina primary. McCain had hoped that South Carolina’s large veteran population would help him win there; but the Christian Coalition, deeply entrenched in the state, became the decisive constituency. Somewhat surprisingly, McCain had the support of Gary Bauer, the social conservative, who had dropped out of the race by that time. “I wanted a commitment from either George Bush or John McCain that if elected he would appoint pro-life judges to the Supreme Court,” Bauer told me. “Bush said he had no litmus test, and his judges would be strict constructionists. But McCain, in private, assured me he would appoint pro-life judges.”Is John McCain willing to call Bauer a liar? Was McCain simply lying to Bauer?
10:05: McCain just got in such a roll attacking government involvement in Obama's health care system that he called him "Senator Government."
10:04: Someone is going to create a vicious video of McCain's eye roles, neck bulges, sighs, head tilts, death stares, and evident moments of gastrointestinal distress. This will be part of it.
10:00: Glad to see McCain mention the Veteran's Administration positively. Sad to hear him mention Joe the Plumber again.
9:52: McCain looks angrier and more petulant than any participant in any major debate I've watched. Watching him try to stay seated is like watching a furious child try and obey a timeout. He can hardly hold still.
9:49: The timer they've got running in the background sounds like a toaster when it goes off During every answer. So this debate is, on the one hand, annoying me, and on the other, making me want waffles. Delicious waffles.
9:47: Is McCain really arguing against unilateralism? And yes, of course, America can unilaterally force the renegotiation of a trading pact in which it's by far the largest participant.
9:38: McCain whips out ACORN and Ayers in the same answer. Obama's answer is slow and it is steady. Lots of folks were curious as to what the campaign had planned in response: It wasn't a zinger, it wasn't Charles Keating. it was a slow, calm, methodical, explanation of his record, twinned with a final shot at McCain's desperation. McCain shot back with more Ayers and ACORN, before saying his campaign wasn't about any of this. it was about cutting taxes. The basic outline of the night is clear: McCain is on the attack, looking to land a killing blow. At times, he can hardly sit still in his chair. Barack Obama is trying to come across as reassuring and presidential. One is looking for an opening, the other trying to cement a lead. My sense so far is that McCain is winning the debate on points scored but Obama is winning the actual debate.
9:33: McCain says "I'm categorically proud of the people who come to my rallies."
9:31: Obama doesn't have much of a killer instinct in debates. McCain's launched a number of frontal attacks, and Obama's replies have been oblique.
9:26: Apparently, all of John McCain's negative ads, and everything that has come out of Palin's mouth, happened because Barack Obama wanted to do five townhalls rather than ten.
9:23: "I support clean coal technology, which doesn't make me popular with environmentalists." Right, Obama bravely bucked those powerful environmentalists in order to kowtow to Illinois interests who're trying to destroy the earth. There's an applause line.
9:18: http://www.joetheplumber.com/. Or maybe it's this guy.
9:09: McCain keeps talking about "Joe the Plumber." He sounds like your great-grandfather telling you about his childhood milkman. Now Obama is talking about Joe the Plumber. This is just SOME DUDE whose finances we know nothing about, and he's dominated the first 13 minutes of the final presidential debate. His plumbing business could be an $800,000 a year enterprise and Joe brings home $300,000 for all we know. You can make money in blue collar enterprises. I'm serious, 2012, we'll decide this by penalty kicks, and turn the money we would've spent on the election into a tax cut. Meanwhile, McCain just ended his remarks by saying we need to "not spread the wealth around." Some country.
9:04: John McCain says "the catalyst for this crisis was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." This is not true. It's not arguably true. If the media were a more worthwhile institution, Bob Schieffer would say, "Senator, that's not true. Now do you actually believe that, in contrast to most all economists, or is it just an attack on your opponent?" Instead, McCain just began the debate by exhibiting total ignorance as to the cause of the financial crisis, and that's just fine. We should just decide elections by penalty kicks.
8:56: Campbell Brown just said that John McCain called Hillary Clinton for debate advice today. Huh.
8:50: CNN now has 14 people arrayed at two tables stretching across their set. 14 people. "The best political team on television" could field a football team with three alternates. And yet you know Rachel Maddow would still juke right by them. On the other hand, Chris Matthews would totally jump offsides then try and argue with the ref. So CNN would probably still win.
COMMENTS (31)
John McCain and Joe the Plumber think 12 years of tax cuts will achieve what 8 years of tax cuts didn't.
Woo hoo! Anybody else feeling rich?
Posted by: anonymiss | October 15, 2008 9:20 PM
"Clean Coal" support is to win Scranton. A United Mine Workers' coal job is better than Dunder Mifflin!
Posted by: Rob | October 15, 2008 9:31 PM
"http://www.joetheplumber.com/
Posted by: Robotic Ghost | October 15, 2008 9:42 PM
McCain is just getting nasty. NASTY!
On this NAFTA exchange, "you have to listen carefully to what he says" and "he's never been south of the border, maybe he should go down there,"
OMG! McCain just ROLLED HIS EYES!
Very Presidential.
Posted by: anonymiss | October 15, 2008 9:56 PM
9:31: Obama doesn't have much of a killer instinct in debates. McCain's launched a number of frontal attacks, and Obama's replies have been oblique.
James Fallows suggests this is because of the danger of coming off as the Angry Black Man, and that one should watch his debate with Alan Keyes for real zinger action.
9:26: Apparently, all of John McCain's negative ads, and everything that has come out of Palin's mouth, happened because Barack Obama wanted to do five townhalls rather than ten.
When I first heard him say that, I thought it was the most transparent bullshit, but I've come round to the belief (that I read here?) that he really is that childish and petty. And as usual, if you take him at his word rather than assume he's a liar, he looks worse.
Posted by: Allen K. | October 15, 2008 10:00 PM
It either is true, or it isn't true, that Obama launched his campaign for senate in the home of Ayers. Which is it? Because only one of the two is telling the truth on this. I actually don't know who it is. Obama did not minimize the campaign launching party -- he flatly denied it. Is this the truth?
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM
pesky iPhone. What I meant to say was how many people shifted their drinking game metric from "my friends" to "Joe the Plumber?"
Posted by: Robotic Ghost | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM
Is Ezra posting? Nothing since 9:52 and it is 10:06. Maybe a server overload?
Posted by: Rob | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM
Response to Ayers should be that McCain has embraced Liddy. Liddy said on his radio show that citizens should shoot ATF agents.
Posted by: Rob | October 15, 2008 10:09 PM
Great debate blogging, Ezra. Kudos.
Best observation of the night: delicious waffles.
Posted by: Kevin S. Willis | October 15, 2008 10:17 PM
"Senator Government"! Hah! Sure that wasn't on purpose?
If it wasn't, it should have been.
Posted by: Kevin S. Willis | October 15, 2008 10:18 PM
Um... how exactly does McCains increased voucher plan jibe with his across the board spending freeze?
Posted by: Craig | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM
I don't know very much about this topic, so I may be confused,but is John McCain confused when he says that Sarah Palin knows a lot about autism and is a subject close to here? Is he just talking about special needs children in a general sense or does he think that Trig is autistic?
Posted by: corby | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM
I hired he Nubem3rs guy to interpret McCain's blinks in his closing statement. It reads: "cindy pack ur bags. STOP leaving for SpaceStation 1 STOP"
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM
I don't know very much about this topic, so I may be confused,but is John McCain confused when he says that Sarah Palin knows a lot about autism and is a subject close to here? Is he just talking about special needs children in a general sense or does he think that Trig is autistic?
Posted by: corby | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM
Joe the Plumber's finances are going to be analyzed more than Graeme Frost's family.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM
I think "health of the mother" was the nail in the coffin. I know what he MEANT, but my God man, how could he sneer contemptuously while uttering the phrase "health of the mother"?!?! The millions of people who aren't obsessed with abortion are going to absorb that comment and think, "McCain doesn't care about the health of mothers." Now that, my friends, is a bad move.
Posted by: tom veil | October 15, 2008 10:36 PM
This certainly wasn't the most important thing for me in the debate, but it made me go "huh":
John McCain said that Palin knows more about special needs children than anyone he knows. She JUST GAVE BIRTH to a special needs baby, what, a few months ago? Its not like she's been struggling for years with raising one, dealing with the school system or health issues or a child getting too large to control etc. Surely there is some Sen or Rep that McCain knows who has been raising a special needs kid for years, or has a grandchild with issues.
And was Palin known as a special needs advocate BEFORE having her baby???
Posted by: Jennifer | October 15, 2008 10:40 PM
I presume that Michelle Malkin is off to Toledo right now to peer through Joe The Plumber's curtains.
For McCain, that was a 90 minute whine about how he should have been a contender.
Posted by: pseudonymous in nc | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM
Cna someone explain to me how debates are "scored"? I keep reading that McCain "won on points," but all I saw is McCain misrepresenting Obama's policies, making insinuations, and attacking straw men. Obama, for his part, didn't do much more than talk about what his policies were, often repeating his policy points after McCain misrepresented them. If you "get points" only for attacking your opponent, it's a pretty stupid way to score a debate.
KidA: You're a stinky butt.
KidB: Am not. My mum washed my butt this morning with a washcloth. My butt is clean.
Kid A: You say your butt is clean but from here it stinks like poo.
Debate Moderator scores two points for Kid A.
Posted by: inkadu | October 16, 2008 12:59 AM
Hey, sir, not trying to be a jerk here. But most of the folks of meeker decent in this land have to be oblique in their criticisms. If not, they are usually seen as being petulant or uppity or just not understanding the actual issue or accused of playin some card or sumthin.
Posted by: Lovecraft | October 16, 2008 1:17 AM
uh, Senator McCain -- If Joe the Plumber buys out his boss's existing business, that won't create any jobs. In fact, it might destroy one, if the current owner also works at the business.
Not to mention that even if Joe's taxes would double, it's doubtful that many other people would suffer the same fate. How many people (humans, not coroporations) buy out existing small businesses?
Posted by: Stuart Eugene Thiel | October 16, 2008 1:34 AM
Am I right in thinking that after the fellas discussed an acrosstheboardspendingfreeze (in GOP-speak it's all one word), every one of McCain's answers involved a new program or additional spending in a new program? Vouchers, autism research, 45 (!) new nuclear plants. . .
Posted by: Stuart Eugene Thiel | October 16, 2008 1:52 AM
Hey Ezra, how come you did live-blogging tonight? Are you contractually obligated? I mean, for any political junky, the debates are completely boring and the candidates almost never say anything they haven't said in some stump speech a million zillion times.
I'm not saying this was a bad live-blog or anything--in fact, it was actually pretty entertaining near the middle where clearly you're hating life and are longing for waffles. But my question is: why? Why put yourself through it? Why put us through it, when a simple "overview" post will do? I have a feeling debate live-blogging is rapidly becoming a blogging convention that doesn't serve any good purpose.
Posted by: david morris | October 16, 2008 3:40 AM
Is Joe the Plumber the new code for hardworking, working class white people?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/joe-the-plumber.html
Look ma, those commie socialists taking away my hard-earned money! They're gonna give at away to those lazy poor!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 4:56 AM
Anyone else shocked that McCain praised Obama's "eloquence" twice in the last debate?
I half-expected a comment about how "clean" he was in there as well.
Posted by: 32_Footsteps | October 16, 2008 8:14 AM
Answer to "Anonymous" post at 10:06 PM : I believe it has been reported that Obama launched his campaign at a Chicago Ramada Inn.
Posted by: Terry Raines | October 16, 2008 8:25 AM
How many people (humans, not coroporations) buy out existing small businesses?
A fair number. Independently owned restaurants, bars, retail markets, etc., frequently change hands between individuals when the current owner decides to retire or switch careers.
This whole thing is a ridiculous smokescreen. Shmoes like myself who sometimes file a "Schedule C" on our taxes might be a "small businessman," but if we're raking in $300k/yr in salary from the business, that doesn't entitle us to any special treatment on our taxes, any different than the business executive who makes the same salary. (by my calculations, he'll pay an extra $1500/yr in taxes) Politicians just think that if you bring up the magical incantation "small businessman" it seems like you're beating up on the little guy.
Even so, as the "Political Radar" article linked to by Can'tUseAPseodonym4:56 pointed out, it's not even clear that Joe the Plumbers business makes $250k in revenue or profits.
The funny thing is that the reason that Obama seems to "win" these debates or exchanges with hostile voters is because Obama isn't necessarily trying to win McCain or Joe the Plumber over, he's trying to win over the undecided voters. Joe might not be convinced by Obama, but plenty of people who saw that youtube video would be.
Posted by: Tyro | October 16, 2008 8:47 AM
Are you saying the Ayers launch party is a lie? I'm not sure. Just asking. If it were true, would that matter? Is there anything wrong with him having a longtime friendship with Ayers? Not necessarily.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 9:33 AM
CNN may have "The best political team on television," but they certainly don't have The Best Fucking News Team On The Planet!
Posted by: Adrock | October 16, 2008 10:03 AM
Anon:
Sen. Obama announces bid for president. He made his announcement from the building where the President Abraham Lincoln served in the state Legislature.
Does Bill Ayers live there?
Posted by: Adrock | October 16, 2008 10:36 AM