It isn't FOX that's making the legal allegations.

And if, indeed, the voter fraud was so rampant that it could have tilted the election......? What do you do? Do you report the truth or do you say "Well, this would hurt minorities so the outcome is more important than the truth"?

FOX is within their charge to report this story. It either has legs, or it doesn't and we will certainly find out soon enough.

You are race-baiting here, Ezra. Acorn can't steal the election, obviously. But they manage themselves badly, they have a history of sending in fraudulent registrations, they seek favors from the government, and they favor Democrats.
It is perfectly acceptable to criticize them strongly, and to cover their incompetence (at best). It is surely justifiable to question their motives.
If they happen to register minorities (their choice) as well as pressure minorities to falsify registrations, then they don't get a free pass because Ezra Klein will declare it racist.
Their activities on behalf of John Kerry were criticized as well. He's white. They do a poor job at a minimum. Criticism of that is color blind.
We are most likely going to have a black President, and you are going to have to get over your instinct to protect him because of his race. That is, in itself, racist. Although it's charming.

Does this mean the GOP is afraid their voter suppression tactics aren't working? Or, is it just one more example of Right Wing projection? It's so hard to keep up these days.

This was as predictable as a Globetrotters vs Generals game. The only suprising thing is how blantantly partisan Fox Nooze has decided to be. By any objective metric compiled over the past several weeks (if not months) it has been clear to anyone that McBush is going to be soundly squashed on election day. But the wingnuts just can't take it like men, they have to blame somebody else, and ACORN is to be their bete noir for the time being. I can't wait to see the "investigative reporting" after the election, it is sure to be a hoot. Also can't wait for the indignant wingnuts to huff and puff and refuse to respect a president that they will always consider illegit, for reasons that they don't really want to admit.

What is most despicable here is that the Republicans KNOW they're lying--and everyone in the media either knows their lying, or SHOULD know they're lying. And yet nobody is calling them out on it!

If, like ACORN, you're an organization that wants to get out the vote, then paying people who turn in bad forms is a problem for your organization. It's EXACTLY like a company paying a traveling salesman to cover the Southeast region, and later finding out he never knocked on any doors, but just made up a whole bunch of sales, and put in fake credit card numbers. It's lost time, it's a lost opportunity, it's a money loss, and it's just bad for ACORN.

This may not be obvious to viewers, but it's completely obvious to anyone who's worked for 5 minutes in professional politics.

Professional Republican political operatives know that this registration scam hurts ACORN. Professional political journalists know (or damn well SHOULD know) that this scam hurts ACORN.

So, I'm sorry, but if this isn't a cynical and transparently false "black and poor people committed voter fraud" story, then what is this? Because the storyline they're pushing is one they KNOW IS NOT TRUE.

Exactly WHY does ACORN receive money from the public coffers in the first place???

Exactly WHY does ACORN receive money from the public coffers in the first place???

I understood your side was pro-privatization.

Besides, we're not talking Haliburton money, or Wall Street Bailout money, or pharmaceutical industry money here. It's strictly small ball.

People should also go read Matt's posts on this subject. Mickey Mouse's fraudulent registration simply isn't going to result in a vote. Prove widespread voter fraud at the polls and you've got something. But if ACORN is registering a bunch of people that aren't going to result in more voters than ACORN is just getting ripped off. Of course, they're required to turn in all the registrations they collect, so there's not much they could do to fix the situation without some change in the regulations governing them.

Prove widespread voter fraud at the polls and you've got something. But if ACORN is registering a bunch of people that aren't going to result in more voters than ACORN is just getting ripped off. Of course, they're required to turn in all the registrations they collect, so there's not much they could do to fix the situation without some change in the regulations governing them.

Yeah, well the key is, as you said, to prove it.
But Ezra and Media Matters (and apparently much of the left blogosphere today) wants to shout down the people that are looking into it as "racist".

But if ACORN is registering a bunch of people that aren't going to result in more voters than ACORN is just getting ripped off.

Ahem....it's ILLEGAL and rightly so. It opens the door for fraudulent votes.

The first of many

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm

Ahem.... ACORN itself reported the instances of registration fraud, which if you look closely enough, is not the same phrase as vote fraud.

But I don't know, maybe the conservative trolls have something here, I mean clearly, this implicates Obama and the entire Democratic ground game.

For El V's sake, let me reiterate, this is not voter fraud. You actually have to vote fraudulently to commit voter fraud. I know this is a difficult concept, and I know you're excited because you've finally found the story that's gonna break this election shit wide open, but exhibiting simple familiarity with the terms at play and the implications of filing fraudulent registrations will make me more confident in your analytical abilities. Speaking of which, maybe you should investigate how many people are unwittingly registered in two different states, and then hunt them down and accuse them of trying to steal the election. But I'll tell you what: If I see a bunch of spectors created by fraudulent registration rolls floating around at my local polling station, I'll give you a call and let's you and me sort that shit out.

What I think everyone is missing is the real ACORN story not being told. ACORN is calling rational and moderate Republicans who they convince to un-register or not participate by playing them nefarious recordings of their own candidates!! Oh, the scandal!!

Pretty soon, those same Republicans will start registering as Independents, or worse, Democrats because their own candidates are nothing but empty shells descending into the company of wingnuts!

Indeed. To get back to the heart of what Ezra is really getting at - it is not at all suprising that the hysterical righties are hating on ACORN. What is suprising, and more than a little scary, and incredibly stupid, is how readily the cable news clowns are jumping in on this too. Fox Nooze is the obvious starting point, but really, CNN and MSNBC are guilty too. These sly allegations repeated over the days just sew mistrust and resentment, without ever really bringing anything substantial to the story. This is exactly what the wingnuts want.
As will doubtlessly be pointed out millions of times over the next few weeks - it ain't "voter fraud" until Frank N. Stein, Dick Hertz, Abbey Normal and Santa Claus actually show up with false IDs and cast votes. Maybe that's what El V could do - show up as a bonafide fraud voter and put his own ass in the slammer for the good of his "cause".

Yes, all of the liberals are pretty cavalier about the FBI's accusations of ACORN'S fraudulent activites.

But in 2000 and 2004, they seemed much more interested in having fair elections, didn't they?

Maybe that's what El V could do - show up as a bonafide fraud voter...

Here ya' go, BOZO:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm
The vote of Darnell Nash, one of four people subpoenaed in a Cuyahoga County probe of ACORN's voter-registration activities, was canceled and his case was turned over to local prosecutors and law enforcement, Board of Elections officials said yesterday.

El V, The new york post? Really? Don't you have anything from Newsmax? You are a friggin hoot, dude.
If you can find anything at all from a real news source about this guy, who strangely enough is named after a former Denver Bronco, I'd like to see it. Nexus didn't come up with anything.

Ask yourself if this were Conservatives doing the cheating on registration.....would you be so cavalier about it then?

What we would do is keep things in perspective and conflate two separate issues. Democrats in '00 and '04 were angry at attempts by conservatives to disenfranchise voters with a legitimate right to vote. An election should be free and fair and have as high a turnout as possible. Yes, and fraudulent votes should not be counted.

What conservatives are doing with this story, however, is conflating voter fraud with voter registration fraud and overlooking really obvious aspects of the story so they can have an evil lefty organization to demonize.

The reason liberals are being so cavalier in these discussions is because they know that conservatives are simply being disingenuous, as is all to common in recent debates.

El Viajero--You must have something better in your press arsenal than the _NY Post_, unofficial New York press bureau of the McCain campaign. That's the right-wing equivalent of the _SF Bay Guardian_. I know because I've been reading it all summer when it was the only paper reliably not sold out at the store near the rural place I was staying for research. Right after the Palin pick, their "articles" were like mash notes. I also draw on years of listening to Savage and Dr. Laura, reading Coulter, Kristol, and Malkin, and watching O'Reilly. Why, you ask? To borrow a phrase from Sarah Palin--I like to "keep an eye on" their tactics--all to better contest them in forums like this one.

I believe the latest revelation of ACORN'S fraudulent registration activities certainly makes the case for positive picture ID when voting......that is is you really are interested in fair elections.

El Viajero--You may well "believe"; but, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan put it, "You are entitled to your own opinion; but you are not entitled to your own facts."

The excerpt below provides a concise summary of why falsified "Mickey Mouse" registrations have had no impact on the actual electoral process:

" A new report by Lorraine Minnite of Barnard College looks at these anecdotes [of voter fraud on election day] and shows them to be, for the most part, wholly spurious. Sure, one can find a rare case of someone voting in two jurisdictions, but nothing extensive or systematic has been unearthed or documented.
But perhaps most importantly, the idea of massive polling-place fraud (through the use of inflated voter rolls) is inherently incredible. Suppose I want to swing the Missouri election for my preferred presidential candidate. I would have to figure out who the fake, dead or missing people on the registration rolls are, then pay a lot of other individuals to go to the polling place and claim to be that person, without any return guarantee - thanks to the secret ballot - that any of them will cast a vote for my preferred candidate.

Those who do show up at the polls run the risk of being detected and charged with a felony. And for what - $10? Polling-place fraud, in short, makes no sense.

The Justice Department devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out fraud over five years and appears to have found not a single prosecutable case across the country. Of the many experts consulted, the only dissenter from that position was a representative of the now-evaporated American Center for Voting Rights."

This is from Richard Hasen's column in the _Dallas Morning News_. TPM refers to Hasen as "one of the most experienced and concise commentators on this question [of the impact of voter fraud." Link is here:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-hasen_10edi.ART.State.Edition1.436da28.html

"Ask yourself if this were Conservatives doing the cheating on registration..... would you be so cavalier about it then?"

No, I'd be laughing my ass off at the sheer stupidity of trying to sway an election in that manner and I'd be rooting them on in their efforts. Either they were serious about their GOTV efforts, in which I'd be sincerely applauding them, or they were serious in their fraud efforts, in which case I'd be ... applauding them, since while they're engaged in such silliness, they're not engaged in efforts that really would sway the election results.

"Yes, all of the liberals are pretty cavalier about the FBI's accusations of ACORN'S fraudulent activites."

Well, mostly because the FBI hasn't leveled any "accusations," nor is there any evidence that anyone from any of ACORN's registration lists has ever actually managed to cast a fraudulent vote. Do let us know when either of those events occur, won' you?