There's a lot you could get into here - with a sister who decided, after college and grad school to do the thing she always loved and go to Culinary, I feel a personal stake. And I suspect that Culinary is closer to "art school" in some ways than, say, law school: that is, you get people taking up cooking who might better be served by keeping it a hobby, or a personal interest (like a certain well intentioned food blogger round these parts). Lots of people take dancing; only a few excel, or have the commitment to a low paying, hard profession. Doesn't mean the problem lies with dance schools, or their cost.

Second, I think there's a nub in here about the Professionalization of Everything: we got away, in recent years, from grad school as an extension of learning, and more to making grad degrees that "extra something" that adds cred - business school, law school, obviously... but journalism and culinary, and the health professions also fall into this. An MBA, an MS, a JD... these things moved you to the front of the line. No wonder people incur debt to get them. My sister's cuilinary degree may not have been cost effective in some objective analysis... but now she's managing a baking kitchen of workers who don't, and probably won't have her training. How hard will it be for them to move into managerial roles? How much scut work will equal her degree? And what does it mean to a profession when the admission to even get through the door is that extra piece of paper or you're SOL?

I agree - maybe J-school isn't all that necessary; I enjoyed my year at Newhouse, but I didn't feel like there was much to get out of it. But journalism, I've found, is a lot about who you know, and a J-school experience makes knowing people easier, knowing them hgher up, and getting opportunities others might not. As someone who recruited from MBA schools, I can tell you, without a degree, and often without a degree from one of about seven schools, you're not going to even be looked at, much of the time. That's the problem. And cost analysis, however well intentioned, won't eliminate the cache of the professional degree. Only expanding the pool, and valuing different kinds of experience will.

There are continuing major scandals in the culinary schools biz (in Portland anyway). Super high fees, super expensive loans, $10-12/hr jobs, at best, for graduates.

You don't make a lot of money as a line cook, and without lots of years of experience (or some money to set up a biz yourself), this education pays little return.

Cooking is both some art and some science, but so is auto mechanics or computer software repair.

One of the most significant social trends in the last generation is taking on huge student loans for college/prof. schools. It was thought to be justified by prospect of outsized salaries afterwards. That hasn't proved to be true for the biggest part of the student loan debtors.

This recession/depression is going to destroy the lives of student debtors who won't get jobs that provide survival and loan repayment - and those federal loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy.

We really need to rethink the financial model for post-secondary education. Costs are out of control, and returns don't justify the wage slavery that are the result. Is there any sector of the economy with higher inflation in prices (including health care)?

There's another important statistic which isn't being discussed. How many professional chefs attended culinary school? How many top-tier professional chefs attended culinary school?

From Ben's article, it's clear that culinary school isn't a good choice if you're looking for a safe career. But if you're determined to be a chef, it may be your best bet. I don't know.

Like weboy, I'm personally invested, but in a slightly different direction; my niece is in a technical high school in a culinary program now. If she goes to culinary school, it will most likely be a local won-- which, the chart tells me, has a pretty low 3% default rate. That's not bad, for any institute of higher learning.

You're half right Jim: what we need is to rethink the notion of post-secondary education. We need to ask why even the most basic jobs require a college degree now, and why "professional" employment may require even more. We need to ask who benefits, who's locked out, and why. And we need to ask how necessary any of this is. If we narrowcast this as a student loan problem, I fear we're missing the point: you didn't used to need a Master's in Nursing to advance as a nurse. Or an MBA to be a business manager. Or a culinary degree to cook or manage a kitchen. We need to step back and ask what's changed, and why. And personally, I think this discussion is a way into a much larger, needed discussion about education generally - what we think kids need to know, and why we're not giving it to them earlier.

The thing about an MFA is that the degree typically allows the holder to pursue a career which can support their art: namely, teaching. A degree from a culinary school doesn't provide the same benefit.

I'm not really sure what can be gained from going to a culinary school that couldn't also be gained from starting a low-end restaurant and using the income and capital from that venture to bankroll more ambitious restauranteuring projects. However, my friends and family are far more involved with the world of low-end food that high-end restaurants, so this colors my view of what economic opportunities are available in the food industry.

"lone default"??? You've been reading too much Yglesias.

;->

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I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Alanna

http://www.craigslisthelper.info