This assertion is simply ridiculous.

Not the Civil Rights Act. Also not the Voting rights Act. Poll taxes for federal elections were ended by the 23d Amendment, ratified in 1964.

It is hardly ridiculous. In fact, Southern politicians of both parties have long counted on this effect to keep the black vote low. Send fewer (and broken) machines to the black districts and you will cause long lines. And nearly everyone hates waiting in long lines. So, when white people wait for 20 minutes and black people wait for six hours, it's more likely that the black voter will just give up and go home. How do you think Jesse Helms kept winning? And when we see the usual long line pictures on election, why are the people standing in those disproportionally black? Ever see a long line with only white people? Didn't think so.

The reason why this assertion is ridiculous is:
1)Any wait time affects the rich as well as the poor, whites as well as blacks.
2) More importantly, Ricky Maddow's suggestion is a conspiracy theory with nothing behind it. She sees nefarious acts with no evidence and that's what makes this person a hack.

I was a skeptic but after watching a few of her shows, I've got to hand it to Rachel. She's doing a brilliant job.

Viajero:

2) There's no conspiracy theory. You don't need "nefarious acts" to have a bad situation; all you need is lack of will to solve the problems that exist. There doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" behind it for long wait times to be a bad thing.
1) Maddow's point is that long wait times disproportionately harm the poor because the rich are more likely to be able to afford to take a day off from work to wait in line and vote. But also: even if it does affect the rich as well as the poor, it's still a bad thing! Nobody should have to wait in line for hours to vote, rich or poor.

El V:

The "poll tax" language may be hyperbolic, but Maddow is pointing out a real problem. In modern America, there is absolutely NO excuse for consistently long lines at polling places during successive days of early voting. The fact that such delays are tolerated is obscene. I didn't hear any hint of some dark conspiracy in Maddow's piece, but clearly you did. Whatever. The central point remains -- people shouldn't have to wait in such ridiculously long lines to vote.

PS -- Check your history before you scoff at fostert's description of the racist use to which the allocation of voting machines has historically been put.

Rachel does not assert a conspiracy theory. She doesn't say a thing about why long lines happen--at least not that I saw in the clip. She says that long lines are bad for democracy and disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people. El Viajero, do you really think that long lines are not a problem at all?

In Gadsden County, FL, we're lucky enough to have 3 early vote locations for a county of about 55,000 people. We have not had any lines to speak of. We're a very poor county and we can afford to provide enough polling stations that lines are simply not an issue. Why can't far richer counties like Broward and Pinellas do the same?

Rachel does not assert a conspiracy theory. She doesn't say a thing about why long lines happen.

The simple fact that Li'l Ricky compares it to the poll tax tells you all you need to know.

I suspect that El V is smart enough to know he is lying.

Wait times do not affect the rich and poor equally it was well documented in 2004, rich neighborhoods have plenty of voting machines so there is very little wait time while poor neighborhoods have far too few machines and long wait times.

As an Oregonian who votes by mail I really can't understand any reason to make voting hard other than voter supression.

I voted in the recent Canadian federal election. As is typical for me, it took about 10 minutes to stroll to the polling place, 5 minutes to vote, and 10 minutes to wander back -- in the middle of the largest city in the country.

How hard is it to run an election properly?

well, i have seen long lines of white people in florida, fostert. Are long lines annoying? Yes. Do they amount to racist policies meant to keep blacks out like the poll tax? No. Would a concerted effort by a group of people to send few or broken machines to specifically black districts to keep them out be a conspiracy? Yes, that is an appropriate use of the word.

What i don't understand is -- why bother with lines at all? vote by mail! can't you do that in most states? or do only wealthy white people have access to the mail as well?

Interesting that El Racista is so touchy about this. And there's reason for that defensiveness. He knows damn well that the failure to provide adequate resources to polling places in poor and minority areas is deliberate. AND he knows damn well that even if there were lines in wealthy areas, those people could afford the lost income (or more likely, aren't losing any income at all.) So yes, he knows he's lying.

This is absurd. I've voted in Canadian and British election. I've never stood in line to do so. Neither has my wife, and she's from Australia where they make everybody vote. Granted, our polling machines consist of a piece of carboard and a box. But still, Americans should ponder just how ridiculous this situation is.

I wonder if, this year, this will work in reverse. People are so excited about Obama that a 5-hour wait with 500 of your most excited neighbors will seem shorter than a 1-hour wait to show your love of McCain.
ps: See the House Judiciary Committee report from 2005. Poor areas in Ohio had dramatically fewer machines per voter, per registered potential voter, or per citizen than wealthy areas, in spite of many requests to change it.

Can't you do that in most states?No, you can't do that in most states unless you can certify that you you have a valid reason such as being out of town on Election day. Hopefully this is changing (my state, Ohio, had "no fault" mail voting for he first time this year, and I was happy to take advantage of it.)

I live in London, England. Each time I've voted (for local MP and Mayor of London) it has taken me 3 minutes to walk to the polling station and less time than than that to actually vote.

I'd say that half an hour would be unacceptable, never mind 5 hours.

In many states photo IDs cost money *and* time spent in yet another long line at your state's department of motor vehicles (or other ID-issuing body) - so attempts to require such IDs for voting are another poll tax.

P.S. Has anyone tried to explore how the time issue interacts with age and turnout? Retirees, by definition, never have to choose between going to the polls or going to work; younger people are more likely to have hourly jobs without the benefits of being able to take time off from them; middle-aged people are often on salary and have some schedule flexibility.

P.P.S. How does Australia reconcile the everyone-must-vote idea with the need to maintain emergency services, law enforcement, etc. on election day? Split shifts?

Why are there too few voting machines, especially in poor neighborhoods? Why did Florida, previous to the Gov. extending the hours, have limited early voting hours? Who is more likely to be disenfranchised by these tactics? I'll give you a hint, EV, not that I think you need one: it ain't the rich.

I remember when the Motor/Votor legislation was being passed, how the Republicans squealed. Why? Because it would make registering for the vote easier -- for poor folk. Can't have that, can't we? Can't let the poor have the vote. Shit, they might use it.

In 2006, I lived in a town of about 6,000 people in Vermont. It probably me took longer to walk to the polling place than it did to get in, vote and get out.

Today, I live in Arlington, Virginia. I spent between about three and a half hours in line on Saturday to vote. I wish I'd brought a book and if the weather had been bad I probably wouldn't have stayed, but as it is, I figured voting after work on Tuesday wouldn't be much better.

What i don't understand is -- why bother with lines at all? vote by mail! can't you do that in most states? or do only wealthy white people have access to the mail as well?

Procrastination, probably, and overvaluing your time now compared to your time in a month. Or a failure to predict that there will be long lines. I knew there are problems, but still, I wouldn't have expected four hours just for early voting.

"How hard is it to run an election properly?"

Apparently, it really isn't that hard. India can pull it off, and they can't provide safe drinking water anywhere in the country. The problem isn't that it's hard, it's that we don't want to run our elections properly. How do you rig an election that's run properly?

Oh please, the lines are a small inconvenience compared to the importance of the election. The huge turnout is causing the lines. Big deal. I will bring a beach chair tomorrow. Ms. Maddow makes Keith Olbermann look like an intellectual giant.

Oh please, the lines are a small inconvenience compared to the importance of the election.

Asshole. Shitheads like you don't deserve to live in a democracy.

Our electoral "system" is a national shame and disgrace.

So they're doing all this early voting to accommodate huge turnout, and she's complaining that the lines for the early voting are too long.

Shouldn't you amend this post to call for a great expansion of the role of government? After all, government could do for our waiting times for health care what it's done for our waiting times for voting.

I am a Canadian who follows the American elections very closely. Recently some friends have asked me why, considering we have similar turnout numbers, Americans have to wait for hours in lines to vote. I do not know the answer to that question.

Oh please, the lines are a small inconvenience compared to the importance of the election. The huge turnout is causing the lines. Big deal.

Exactlly

It really seems that voting machines take a lot longer than paper ballots. Only one person can use the machine at a time, so you are limited by the number of machines. You could supervise a far greater number of ballot voters at the same time. It's time to go back to paper.

After all, government could do for our waiting times for health care what it's done for our waiting times for voting.

heh

Now *that's* funny! It also brings up the fast and efficient service FEMA has given to both the Katrina and Ike victims.

Viajero has already asserted that it's the unacceptable face of 'big government' for democratic governments to manage the democratic process.

Viajero actually likes the idea of Those People waiting in line for half a day to vote. To him, it's about reminding them of Their Place.

Viajero is most likely changing the locks on his slumlord properties to ensure that potential Democratic voters can't leave their homes tomorrow.

Fortunately, the generation of bigots to which Viajero belongs will be confined to history in a couple of decades.

How does Australia reconcile the everyone-must-vote idea with the need to maintain emergency services, law enforcement, etc. on election day? Split shifts?

The polls are open 8am-6pm Saturday. Voting takes a few minutes, so you can vote in your lunch hour.

Early voting in the US happens at fewer locations, so you get bottlenecks. But if you're voting early because you can't get the time off on election day, or your local precinct has a history of day-long lines and malfunctioning machines, then you at least have the opportunity to come back another day. This doesn't make it any less of a national disgrace.

"Unless you're losing a day's pay when you can already barely pay your bills."

That's a good point, but it gets worse. Often, employers only give a little time off work for voting. So guess what happens when a guy can only take two hours off but has to wait in a six hour line? If he wants to vote, he gets fired. If he wants to keep his job, he doesn't vote. Some choice.

I do not know the answer to that question.

Viajero is most likely changing the locks...

Now if Ol' Brendan could only manage his own life as well as he does his blog, he wouldn't have lost his son to some floozie that took him out of the country. Maybe even get a job that pays instead of being a broke-dick year upon year...

I'm in Oregon and heartily endorse vote by mail. I voted in California, Pennsylvania, and the District of Columbia before I got here, and never had to wait more than 30 minutes or so. If I showed up at a polling place and encountered a three-hour wait, I would grab a brick. I hope everyone who had to wait to vote this year will get right to work advocating for optical scan ballots, and vote by mail, in their state, immediately after the votes are counted this year--and not let up.

Hey El V, Anatole France is laughing at you.

Chris, no offense intended, but your question seems like a question from bizarro world. How does America reconcile the fact that voting is optional with the need to maintain emergency services, law enforcement, etc. on election day? You just don't get to vote if you work that day?

In Australia voting is on Saturdays, and the polls are open at eight, and stay open until usually around six, and you can vote anywhere you want, so you can vote near work or near the shops or home or whatever. You vote on a paper ballot in a cardboard booth, so setting up lots of polling stations with lots of booths is not particularly difficult or expensive. Since everyone is required to vote it's not that hard to predict turnout and plan accordingly. You enrol to vote with the federal government (it's also compulsory to enrol) and for months before the election they go around checking everybody's enrolled, so the information is usually up to date, and there's no ID requirement, so it takes you about ten seconds to be a handed a ballot. As a consequence, in most areas there are lots of polling venues and little to no queueing. The most I've ever queued is ten minutes and more often there is no queue at all.

So, if you're working on a Saturday, you can vote before work, after, on a break, or you can request to vote early - up to two weeks before election day. It's sometimes a hassle to fit voting in around work but it's not like services can't be maintained.

We do have some problems and before the last election there were some dodgy attempts to shape the playing field via changing the law about who can vote and when you can enrol, but the overall system is one in which every eligible person is expected to vote in every federal and state election, and things are managed accordingly.

A lot of people have mentioned that this is a disgrace. But how much of a disgrace is it, really? Obviously, we don't compare well to modern industrialized countries. But how do we compare to developing countries? Sadly, not too well. On my last trip to India, I had a free day while my traveling friend was trying to get a visa at the US consulate in Chennai. So I watched some TV, and it turned out that it was election day in Gujarat. Woohoo! So watched the national coverage. It was in Hindi with Tamil subtitles (I was Tamil Nadu). And when they talked to the locals in Gujarat, the language switched to Gujarati. But here's the thing: I could still follow it as the results poured in. It turns out that in India, the guy who gets the most votes wins. What a novel concept. And the vote was counted and recounted within two hours of the poll closing. They had footage of the polls, and the lines were shorter than here. The waits were less than two hours. And let's face it, you can't buy a train ticket in India without at least a two hour line. Almost nothing works properly in India. But elections do. They can manage an election with twenty three official languages, a billion people (half of whom are illiterate), and cultural differences that make Europe look completely homogeneous. All in a country that is incapable of keeping the electricity on for 24 hours in a row. It's probably unrealistic for us to achieve the standards of the industrialized world, but can't we at least do better than the developing world?

Ah, the Yellow Stain of Texas never fails to unamuse, as his most precious prejudices are rejected across the nation. His most lasting legacy will be a handful of sour stories about that worthless old bigot, and a faint odor of sulfur from an untended grave.

If it's a tax (and I'm not really sure it qualifies), wouldn't be an entirely progressive tax? The more money you expect to make per hour, the more you lose by sitting in line.

Also, it's not that difficult to vote via an absentee ballot.

Finally, what made the Jim Crow poll taxes of old evil was the underlying intent. It's hard to suggest that the line-wait is intentionally directed at any particular subgroup.

Finally, what made the Jim Crow poll taxes of old evil was the underlying intent. It's hard to suggest that the line-wait is intentionally directed at any particular subgroup.

Oh, Travis, you don't understand the technique.

If you can make any kind of a weak case, even one of an evidence-free case, that this was a nefarious act, then that becomes the "truth" that you promote.

I might add that in Texas, we haven't had these problems. Of course, in Texas, we don't have a lot of the problems of other states. The economy is good, home prices didn't bubble and then crash, there's jobs for those who want them, the state has money in their coffers, and all of the people are friendly. There is no personal income tax.

Is there any wonder that people are moving *to* Texas and not out of it.

*AND* I just filled up @ $2.06 gal!

If you can make any kind of a weak case, even one of an evidence-free case, that this was a nefarious act, then that becomes the "truth" that you promote.

Ok, it's time to call one of these sleaze-balls out and it's Steve's turn.

Here's the question for Steve LaBonne:

What evidence do you have for the assertion that the lines are part of a plot to suppress the vote?

Put answer here, Steve ________________________________________

Over the 25 years I've been old enough to vote, I've voted in 5 different states and in 3 of them, multiple municipalities. I can attest that the wealthier towns have more voting stations, better parking, more poll workers, more space, restroom facilities, etc. The only place I have ever waited longer than an hour is in Hyde Park (Obama's neighborhood, south side of Chicago, but a relatively affluent neighborhood). I went in the middle of the day and still had a two hour wait. There were only three of those punch card booths and the lines were out the door at 10am. The shortest wait? Lake Forest, IL. In, vote, out. Multiple stations, extra pens for marking the scantron ballot, lovely facility, etc. It's a poll tax, alright.

The very much out in the open Republican campaign of voter caging and vote suppression, asshole. Why would the same people conducting that be interested in helping out the same voters they're trying to keep away from the polls in the first place?

Who you gonna believe, El Racista or your lying eyes?

Typically, those on the right want to change the subject rather than address the issue at hand.

It doesn't matter whether long lines at polling places result from a right-wing plot to disenfranchise blacks, a left-wing plot to disenfranchise whites, a Martian plot to sow mistrust of our Earthly institutions, or from good old American incompetence.

The point is that long lines make it hard to vote. This prevents a large number of people from voting. A modern, wealth democracy ought to be able to hold an election without such a disgraceful result.

Do El V, Travis Weaver, et al really disagree with this? Pervasive long lines on election day (avoided by all other democracies) are fine and dandy? Really?

Responding to various fools:

"Oh please, the lines are a small inconvenience compared to the importance of the election."

And the grocery line is a small inconvenience compared to the importance of getting your groceries. But if you had to wait for four hours to get groceries you wouldn't say it was no problem.

"So they're doing all this early voting to accommodate huge turnout, and she's complaining that the lines for the early voting are too long."

Uh, yeah, what's up with that? So they built highways so that cars could drive on them, and she's complaining that the roads need to be maintained!

"Finally, what made the Jim Crow poll taxes of old evil was the underlying intent. It's hard to suggest that the line-wait is intentionally directed at any particular subgroup."

No, what made the poll tax evil was that it kept people from voting. I don't care if the "intent" was to raise funds for puppies and kitties, the result was evil. State lotteries are bad, even though the intent is to fund schools. Long lines are bad, because the result is that people are prevented from exercising a fundamental democratic right.

4-8 hour lines to vote are unquestionably bad and should be prevented. Honestly, can the contrarians shut up once in a while?

The point is that long lines make it hard to vote. This prevents a large number of people from voting. A modern, wealth democracy ought to be able to hold an election without such a disgraceful result.

Who is running the elections at these places? Who is in charge of the districts where these poor people have to wait in line? That's where you have to start to look if you want to assign blame.

To me, it seems like a good example of what happens whenever government is in charge of a lot of people. The DMV comes to mind.

Oh yeah, missed this one:

"After all, government could do for our waiting times for health care what it's done for our waiting times for voting."

You mean, have a poorly-regulated, patchwork system full of shoddy errors that's biased against poor people, rather than one in which the resources of the federal government are devoted to standardizing and streamlining the process? I'd say we're already there!

To me, it seems like a good example of what happens whenever government is in charge of a lot of people.

Also, do they often find their work actively interfered with by state officials in Republican-controlled states? Hell yes. When Republican government doesn't work, it's because they don't want it to.

"I might add that in Texas, we haven't had these problems."

Well, you Texans deny people during the registration process to keep the lines down. I used to live in Texas, and I was denied the right to vote in the 2000 election. They refused to give me a reason (and still do). And they didn't deny me until two days after the registration deadline despite the fact that I sent my application in four months before the deadline. So why was I denied? Given that the State of Texas still refuses to give me an explanation, I get to speculate. My last name is considered to be a black name in Texas and I lived in a black neighborhood. So, I was rejected because they thought I was black. If the State of Texas wants to contest my explanation, they can simply offer me the explanation that they have so far denied me. I'll be waiting....

That's because you're not very bright. Do they have the same resources as wealthier districts? No. Do wealthier districts have the same degree of problems? No, so how come "government" works fine there (as well as in every other democracy)?

I've been to the DMV in wealthier areas, and waited for hours. I've been told conflicting information, incorrect information, and sent on wild goose chases.

It may be that I'm not very bright, but you aren't giving me any facts. You are making assertions.
How many fewer machines are there at the poorer districts polling places? What kinds of resources do they not have access to and why? Who makes the decisions about where the resources go?
Do people in some areas have more trouble voting, and thus take longer? How long is it supposed to take each person to vote, and what do the polling places plan for? Is there difficulty in getting poll workers trained in some districts? If so, why?
What politicians are allowing it to happen in their districts, and why?

When there are four-hour lines in some places to get gas, as we saw over the summer, it's treated as an emergency. Priorities, priorities.

And if a newly-democratized country were to institute the kind of patchwork electoral system that the US maintains, it wouldn't pass muster with election observers.

In the meantime, Viajero will keep holding the things that shame America closest to his rotting chest, and keep frothing at the 21st century. Your day is done, old man.

Also, do they often find their work actively interfered with by state officials in Republican-controlled states? Hell yes. When Republican government doesn't work, it's because they don't want it to.

Ohio is not a Republican-controlled state.
Virginia is not a Republican-controlled state.
That's where Ezra's two stories came from. Democratic controlled states.
The controls on voting day are primarily at the district level, though.

I've been to the DMV in wealthier areas, and waited for hours.

Not just not very bright- also not very honest.

I've been to the DMV in wealthier areas, and waited for hours.

Virginia @4:14 = AFAIK, Florida already uses optical scan paper ballots statewide, so that is not the problem in Broward County.

Across the state in mostly white, reliably Republican Pasco County, nobody I know has had to take more than 10 minutes to vote, except one person who voted the first available day; took her about an hour. Amazing what a difference the demographics make!

We're talking about the DMV because we are talking about the government's fantastic ability to mismanage a large number of people.
I have duly noted all the facts you've provided about why some polling places have such difficulty managing voters.

I rarely agree with you or Rachel but in this case you are both right Ezra.

I was just thinking about this, this morning. Not only are the long lines disenfranchisement, we have several other problems that have been created by the bureaucracy that just do not need to be.

Question: Why doesn't the US have a national, non-partisan organization to coordinate the presidential election? Why is the ballot system, number of booths, staffing, etc. all left to state level organizations? And why can those organizations be controlled by partisan appointees? Here in Canada, if you are at all involved with organizing the voting you have to act and appear strictly non-partisan - the chief bureaucrat isn't even allowed to vote. How is the US so far behind on this?

The poll tax was not abolished by the Civil Right Act of 1964.

The poll tax was not abolished by the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

The poll tax was not abolished by the 23d Amendment, which was ratified in 1961 and gave electoral votes to the District of Columbia.

The poll tax was abolished by the 24th Amendment, ratified in 1964.

"But as Rachel Maddow says in the clip above, voting lines are just another form of poll tax."

I see where this is going. If Obama wins, there shouldn't be a need to vote anymore, and then nobody will be disenfranchised, since there won't be a vote. I think I read about such a thing happening about 75 years ago, somewhere in Europe...

All hail BO The One!!!

kaybeel: Common Cause. FairVote. Some light reading.

We're talking about the DMV because we are talking about the government's fantastic ability to mismanage a large number of people.

No, you're talking about the DMV because you like flogging a dead horse. Why not talk about the county fire department? How about we talk about school boards, because the way they're funded and work have a lot in common with county election boards.

I've been voting in Canadian elections for 42 years. I've never had to wait in any lines. The polling stations have always been well staffed (usually by retirees), and the process has been smooth and simple. You need to bring in your right to vote card, that is sent out to everyone a few weeks before the election by the federal government, a #2 pencil and the paper with the candidates' names on them in alphabetical order. Mark your X and put it in the ballot box.

You will be finished in a matter of minutes.

Why are the lines so long in America? Is it a lack of people to man the polling stations? Is this dearth of help prevalent in poorer neighbourhoods?

I always voted in a mid-size, half n half blue/white collar, suburban town in MA and I never waited more than 10 minutes in a line.

I've moved to a city in NH though, so might have to wait longer. You know what I'm doing tomorrow? Taking the entire morning off just in case. I'll exercise in the morning then the head to the polls around 10. I'm only able to do that because I'm fortunate enough to work in a salaried position where taking a bit of time off is perfectly OK. Why can you douchebags realize many people don't have that luxury?

Travis -
No, it's a REgressive tax. The less you make, the less you can afford to lose work hours. If you're making minimum wage and scraping by paycheck-to-paycheck, losing a day of work could mean being short on the month's utility bills. A salaried professional, on the other hand, might be able to slip out for the day and not lose pay at all.

God, Republicans are diabolical. So good at coming up with ways to oppress people that make it so easy, so tempting to blame the victim. No rich white person would wait 8 hours to vote. Luckily for them, they don't have to. I don't have to wait in line to vote. But I live in Texas, not a swing state. How funny.

Viajero = Bigot

Thank you for the links. The decisions I asked about are currently under the authority of the locality. There is no big plot against voters. There is no poll tax equivalent, just standard issue bureaucratic incompetence (with a bit of voter and volunteer confusion thrown in for good measure).
Yet I see Amanda above, blaming "republicans" for blaming the victims.
This is not a Republican plot, the localities are running the elections poorly for a variety of reasons. In some cases, the states aren't requiring them to do better, but again- VA and OH are not Republican states. We don't know the county clerks of all the troublesome election spots.

You are going to have to find a new boogyman. Dems are going to have to start learning to accept some responsibility here.

There is no big plot against voters.

Well done for chopping down that strawman, kaybeel. There's just the same fucked-up local provisioning that allows dullard GOPpers to pass the buck.

Dems are going to have to start learning to accept some responsibility here.

Shorter kaybeel: "let them eat cake".

Want to provide more voting machines for your precinct, and the county won't provide? Hold a bake sale! Get kids knocking on doors, selling cookies! Private charity! Election vouchers!

You'd think that, as a base level, even conservatives would think the duties of a democratic government included maintaining an equitable voting system. The alternative is to assume that they don't give a shit about democracy.

We don't know the county clerks of all the troublesome election spots.

We know that the county-based system is broken. We know that non-partisan bodies like Elections Canada are not broken. We know that Republicans will squeal and moan at any attempt to federalize standards for federal elections. We know that kaybeel wants to treat the symptom and not the cause.

Viajero, waits don't affect people equally: They take up different amounts of an individual's income. In the case of working class people, a missed half-day or day is often just unaffordable, or can be grounds for being fired.

Election day should be a FEDERAL HOLIDAY.

Wake up.

i always wondered why america doesn't vote on the weekend. it would just take an amendment to the consitution.

there's no reason for the modern america to have to vote on tuesday.

i'm not enamoured of their methods, but i have to agree w/the premise of the 527 why tuesday?

Conservative willful ignorance is truly amazing.

ps. It took me 15 seconds to cast my ballot in Oregon's vote-by-mail after filling it out at my leisure at home. And I knew there was no problem with my registration because I received my ballot when they were automatically mailed to registered voters weeks ago. If there had been a problem with my registration, I would have had plenty of time to straighten it out. How can anyone justify making it difficult to vote?

Jo / Chris / Anonymous,

Another Aussie here.

Australian polls are open from exactly 8 until exactly 6 on the Saturday of every election.

You can also vote early, in person, pretty easily, or by mail with little difficulty.

Given that voting takes only 10 mins or so (rather than 3 hours +) it's not hard for everyone to vote on the day.

However, it's also very easy to vote in a district other than your own if you have to work, for example, or are on holiday, or at University in a different state. For an Australian Federal election you can vote at ANY polling place in Australia for any district. (We call it absentee voting, but that means something different in the US.)

Can you not do that in the US?

Is that because of all the other less important elections you have all at the same time? (We do only our version of Congress, so two votes only, 1 HoR 1 Senate)

Otherwise, why don't at least some of the long lines move to other polling places nearby? Compared to a 3hr wait a 20 min drive seems attractive.

absentee ballots

Orange County has had early voting all over the place while Los Angeles County had it available in one location.
(see the LA Times story)
Dems need to treat the offices of Registrar of Voters and Secretary of State much more seriously instead of a backwater office for a party stalwart to retire to.

El Viajero @5:12: What evidence do you have for the assertion that the lines are part of a plot to suppress the vote?

That they *exist*, El V. And that only half the country think they're a problem.

If you didn't want me to think it's (a) racist, and (b) unspoken GOP policy, you'd be pushing a solution right now. You'd be able to say "Ezra don't blame us man, here's the dozen things my Party's done to make sure this never happens again. Why aren't you Dems on board?"

LOL kaybeel, Ever tried to get through to complaints/customer service at a major corporation? How about to get a return or a refund?

If you bother to respond, could you tell us why you think Government doesn't cause massive delays in the UK, Canada and Australia, among others, but it would in the US?

This is not comparable to food or gas lines because elections are infrequent. This year's was clearly more inconvenient than many. THe fact that youse (I feel free to use it since the "irrespective" flap) are so worried about inconvenience and so LITTLE worried about protecting the process from fraud and keeping it safe shows you are not ready for the life of service and sacrifice your leader is demanding from you.

Actually document even ONE proven case of "fraud" (and no, not with some bullshit allegation you read on Drudge) and we'll listen to you.

But the truth is that these hordes of fraudulent voters are as mythical as unicorns. But vote suppression is very, very real and a far greater threat to democracy.

People who care so little about democracy deserve to have their own voted taken away. Let them see how it feels for once.

Here in the UK, we vote with paper, and a pencil. I don't have to wait in line, and I don't worry that my vote has been stolen by a machine from Diebold. Basic, but it works.

Its also the case that those in charge of elections are not part of any party (more often than not ordinary council workers). The idea of the officals of one party saying who can and cannot vote would simply not be tolerated. We do have some fraud, but its minor and generally taken seriously.

Why can't the US sort this out? After 2000, and 2004, we can only hope that the new Congress makes clearing up this mess a priority. It certainly needs to.

One question for the UK/Aussie folks - how many things do you tend to vote on at once? Today I had three federal offices, four local offices (all unopposed; the real action was in the primaries), and three ballot initiatives. Now, we also voted on paper, so that's not a reason to use machines, but I do wonder if it affects the complexity of the system. (And ask the people in San Francisco about their ballot questions - 34 of them, I believe?)

Virginia is not a Republican-controlled state.

While Virginia's governor is a Democrat, its legislature, which would dole out money for elections, is strongly Republican.

What I'd propose, if we couldn't pass federal (and thus professional) control over elections would be a simple law saying any government official found to directly or indirectly block an American from voting shall be subject to no less than 8 years in the general population of a maximum security prison.

Let's see how Ken Blackwell feels about requiring 80 lb paper for voter registration (which even his office cannot find) if it lands him as somebody's bitch in jail.

It really doesn't matter whether there is a conspiracy or not by any particular party. Extraordinarily long lines are voter suppression, period.

Steve Labonne made assertions that the long lines were a deliberate attempt to suppress the vote. I asked Mr. Labonne point blank what evidence he had for this assertion. Here is his response:

The very much out in the open Republican campaign of voter caging and vote suppression...

Bottom line is Mr. LaBonne is a partisan hack and can't even make his case.

He's a liar.

The fact that Americans have to vote on many more things than people in other countries do is going to mean that it takes longer to vote here than elsewhere. That won't explain why we see huge lines in some places and short lines or no lines in others in the U.S., though.

There's reason for that defensiveness. He knows damn well that the failure to provide adequate resources to polling places in poor and minority areas is deliberate. AND he knows damn well that even if there were lines in wealthy areas, those people could afford the lost income

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