"it discredits him from associating with those who stood tall, said no, and paid a public price for their courage."

Those who stood tall including, among others, Janeane Garofalo.

It's interesting to read Kennedy's speech today blasting Iraq as Bush's Vietnam, in which he asserts that his vote against authorizing the invasion of Iraq was one of his proudest in a long Senate career -- because Kennedy voted FOR the Tonkin Gulf Resolution.

Somebody should do a running Profile in Courage page (especially if it was genuinely neutral), cuz folks who really do stand up against the tide are rare.

Yes, Janeane Garofalo is a woman, and an Italian-American at that, which means her rightful place in society, according to the male commentariat, is to be a devout Mass-goer or a "spicy" extra in pizza commercials.

USR's (U.S. residents, I'm tired of saying "Americans") didn't listen to Ms. Garofalo because they have ingrained bigotry and stereotypes. Not because she wasn't a steadfast, convincing peace advocate.

read the column for slate he wrote. It wasnt actually against the war. It only raised some sensible questions about whether the war is worth it. A better title would be " I sometimes worry that the people in government are not as smart as Joe Klein"

As Atrios points out, JK was for the war after he was against it:

However, we do have this from... 2003!

This is a really tough decision. War may well be the right decision at this point. In fact, I think it--it's--it--it probably is.

Garofalo did claim at one point that the world was better off when the Soviet Union was still around, which is completely idiotic.

Can't say she was wrong about Iraq, though. She certainly called that one right.

The Jean Garafalo reference made me think about what you or someone posted earlier about how Klein is more theater critic than political pundit. He says now he opposed the war, but that opposition was not as compelling as his desire to share a stage with Bush the Star rather than Garafalo the outsider

"Garofalo did claim at one point that the world was better off when the Soviet Union was still around, which is completely idiotic."

It would be, if the ultimate source for that quote wasn't WorldNutDaily. Not the most reliable of sources.

Joe Klein's problem is that when he had the chance, he said, "I'd like to be anti-war, but not if it means being identified as a dirty fucking hippie. Sorry."

You know this is kind of pathetic, shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, Klein's shallow thinking, bad calls, poor judgement is, sad to say, in the permanent record. Check out a Time piece this past June called: Why Bush is (Still) Winning the War at Homehttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1205359-2,00.html:

"Bush had reason, finally, to strut. The al-Zarqawi raid had netted valuable intelligence data that were enabling U.S. and Iraqi forces to roll up al-Qaeda cells--the best haul since the capture of Saddam Hussein, which made it possible for U.S. forces to disable much of the dictator's inner circle in early 2004. What's more, the first elected Iraqi government was finally fully in place. Back home, Karl Rove was officially unindicted in the CIA leak case, and the Democrats were busy being Democrats--divided, defensive and confused about the war, with Bush's favorite punching bag, Senator John Kerry, leading the charge."
This sad piece then concludes with a confirmation that the next Friedman Unit is crucial and will lead to the Dems electoral rout in November: "What can the Democrats do? They can play politics or be responsible. The political option is to embrace "cut and run"; call for an immediate withdrawal, as Kerry did; and hope the public is so sick of Bush and sick of the war that it will punish the G.O.P. in the fall. But embracing defeat is a risky political strategy, especially for a party not known for its warrior ethic. In fact, the responsible path is the Democrats' only politically plausible choice: they will have to give yet another new Iraqi government one last shot to succeed. This time, U.S. military sources say, the measure of success is simple: Operation Forward Together, the massive joint military effort launched last week to finally try to secure Baghdad, has to work. If Baghdad isn't stabilized, the war is lost. "I know it's the cliché of the war," an Army counterinsurgency specialist told me last week. "But we'll know in the next six months--and this time, it'll be the last next six months we get."

That he gets well paid for this is, well, stunning.

Jesus, is Joe Klein still picking fights with the blogosphere?

Joe Klein has lost all his credibility. He'll soon be known as Joke Line.

Kleing might have thought deep in his heart that the war was a bad idea but he didn't want to risk his place among the DC Media Elite by publicly opposing the war. The DC Establishment was pro war. Klein wanted to remain a member of the Establishment.

Time magazine was wall to war neocon cheerleading for the war. They did not want to publish anti war viewpoints. Klein clearly knew what would help/hurt his career and behaved accordingly.

Joe Klein is just another corporate media hack. He echoes the Establishment views.

If Klein had adamantly opposed the war in 2002 and 2003, would he have been allowed on TV?

I'm not so sure. And I think Klein knows that if he did actually speak out with a full column about the war being wrong through and through, he would be classified as a "Janeane Garofalo" or "Michael Moore" type and lose his place on the stage.

But if Klein had spoken out forcefully with conviction and truth on his side, when it could have mattered...
he wouldn't be Joe Klein.

the first loan and then comes to you to make up the difference between the sale price of your home and the loan from the bank

the first loan and then comes to you to make up the difference between the sale price of your home and the loan from the bank

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Liberal Intelligence???? Thats an oxymoron!

Everything will be all right,I am behind you.