Why does being critical of Israel have to be labeled within the spectrum of Zionism at all? I am very critical of the actions of the Israeli government, but consider myself wholeheartedly Zionist. I believe Israel should and has a right to exist.

Labeling people critical of Israel as "Post-Zionist" lends legitimacy to the notion that somehow criticism of Israel means disbelief in its right to exist, which it shouldn't.

Awkward, it's not a label for ALL who are critical -- it's a label for us Jews who are more critical.

It's not perfect, because Israel exists -- most of us just want it to change (and there's a range there too-- from small changes to radical changes) -- it's the "Israel as Jewish (only) State" part that using "Zionism" describes in a very clear way and is more accurate by far than other labels. (i'd say, anyway)

I really get tired of the term Zionist. The reality is that people are living where they are living. You're not going to get all the Jews out of Israel or all the Palestinians out of where they are, at least not under any likely foreseeable action.

Talking about what Zionism was doesn't help bring about peace. It just hangs labels on people's position on a 19th century idea.

I'm a sometimes critical of Israel Jew myself, but despite "tradition" I am more or less convinced talking about who did what to whom when in the past is not moving the ball forward.

I'd be thrilled for a start if Israel was just seen and described and assessed like other countries on Earth -- and not as the "Jewish state", as most of the regular media calls it -- and polls too.

Everyday the "Jewish=Israel" connection in American minds is being reinforced and cemented further. That hurts us, and makes it seem like that's all we care about.

For the first time, views of this latest round of violence of the non-"Israel is always right and you love terrorists/hate Jews/are apologizing for terrorists/etc" variety are being read and heard and not dismissed.

That needs to happen more, and small things like this can help maybe. (and everyone's always bringing up history and religion anyway -- whether it's to counter the official propaganda and spin, or to justify everything Israel does)

The problem is the unspoken edict that in order for Israel to exist, other peoples cannot. Had Israel created a democracy and a constitution decades ago that protected the rights of all people living within its Jewish state, there would have been no problem and no war today.

Gentiles worldwide are fed up with Jewish exceptionalism as expressed in the constant barrage of why Israel hastagotta exist. STFU already. You want to call that anti-semitism? FIne.

If I hear any more tripe about why it’s acceptable to do to civilians what Israel has just done, I will wear an anti-semitic label with pride.

Or as Paul Woodward wrote here : “We had no choice,” has become Israel’s national mantra.
But to say “we had no choice,” is to say our actions are not the fruit of our intentions. We are now the instrument of the will of others. Hamas made us do this.

bokhim ve-yorim: Crying and shooting.

oh my god --

U.S. seeks to ship hundreds of tons of arms to Israel -- http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054236.html

"... The request for the ship was made on Dec. 31, with the first leg of the charter to arrive no later than January 25 and the second at the end of the month.

The tender for the vessel follows the hiring of a commercial ship to carry a much larger consignment of ordnance in December from the United States to Israel ahead of air strikes in the Gaza Strip. ..."

"Had Israel created a democracy and a constitution decades ago that protected the rights of all people living within its Jewish state, there would have been no problem and no war today."

So how does that explain Palestinian attacks on Jews back in the 19th century? These attacks started about 140 years ago, decades before there ever was an Israel. Sorry, it's not about Israel refusing to let other nations exist, it's about other nations refusing to let Israel exist. The history is very clear here: it wasn't the Jews who began the war. There's absolutely no question about that. You might be able to argue that the Jews are perpetuating that, which I would disagree with, but no one can possibly argue that they bear any responsibility for starting it.

As far as younger Jews being less supportive of Israel, it's not as simple as that. Some younger Jews are more critical, but some are much less critical. I know in my own family, it's the younger generation (in their 20s and 30s) who are much, much more supportive of Israel. My young cousin even moved to Israel to help support them. I find them to be rather right-wing, in fact. So there's as much a split in the younger generations as there has ever been in the older ones. I personally don't know any Jews (left, right, reform, conservative, orthodox) who don't support Israel. Not one. It's quite unanimous. There are differences of opinion on what Israel should do, but universal agreement that Israel is under attack and needs to defend itself. The anti-Semites are quite vocal, but they're basically just a fringe movement, not representing any substantial groups of people.

Post-Zionism?

Is that like being a Post-Apartheid Afrikaner? Just curious.

Post-zionist? How about post-jewist-hegemony over US foreign policy? How about post-jewist hegemony over the msm? Then we can start rebuilding foreign policy along real progressive democratic lines. How about adding to that a post-US and post-Israel Middle East? Then there’ll be some peace in that smoldering shell hole at last.

By the way, calling yourself a zionist is calling yourself a racist.

How can you define your attitude towards Zionism unless you first clarify what kind of Zionism you address ?
The anti-assimilationistic and atheistic Moses Hess version ?
Theodor Herzl's socialist Utopia ?
Jabotinsky's fascist state ?

What is the zionist agenda post -1948 ?

Frankly, there is so much "Newspeak" from the zionist camp that I no longer pay attention on what they say. Only what they do-and "by Jehosaphat" it ain't pretty.

As a jew, i'm perfectly comfortable calling myself an anti-zionist and i'm comfortable with movements composed of non jews using that banner. I don't think there's an automatic slippage or even a tendency for antizionism to shift to antisemitism. There is nothing automatic about the equation israel=jew. The failing hegemony of that link is the story of zionism's rise in this country, especially after the 1967 war. I don't have a problem with post-zionist orientations, but don't elide the differences between that and principled, anti-racist left anti-zionism - which among Jews dates back at least as far as the Bund - and don't deny that position as a valid one for folks, young and old, jew or not, to inhabit...

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