Actually, spending on contraceptives does help the economy and saves taxpayers money. Short-term, it reduces the revenue loss from deductions and child tax credits, and releases more productive time to parents or would-be parents. Long-term, it reduces demand on basic resources (like oil, copper, etc.) and reduces the cost to the rest of us. BTW there is no legitimate advantage of any kind, social, economic, etc.; to population growth once density like ours has been reached.

tyrannogenius

Yes, they are. The short version is 'If you cannot afford a kid, do not have sex'.

It"s just redstate meat for the base. Pat Buchanan thinks we have the beginnings of a "culture war". Boner and his boys are hoping this form of manure sticks to the walls. No rational denial of how the policy would or wouldn't save taxpayer money will be used by anyone on the right, Just ask Eric Cantor.

"I've never bought the idea that opposition to abortion is solely about controlling women's bodies."

90% of it is.

Anti-choice = anti-woman

"If you cannot afford a kid, do not have sex"

Yeah. Because history teaches us that approach ALWAYS works like a charm.

No amount of logic or rationality will ever overcome the millions of years of evolution and the primary instinct of all living things.

Pretending otherwise is foolish. You may as well tell people not to eat.

Pat Buchanan thinks we have the beginnings of a "culture war".

Thank heaven Buchanan and Rush Limbaugh have never bred.

This is an excellent development. The pro-choice movement should long ago have renamed itself pro-privacy and tied threats to abortion to threats to contraception (as well as end-of-life issues etc.)

If poor people stop having children, then where will the cannon fodder come from?

When a pregnancy that would otherwise have occurred has been prevented by use of contraception, that is the loss of a prepubescent child that a clergyman will never bugger, who will never grow up to be a service member to be blown to bits.

Some elements of our society become apoplectic at the prospect of an altar boy shortage in the short run and a cannon fodder shortage in the long run.

"Pat Buchanan thinks we have the beginnings of a "culture war"."

We just had our 'culture war' on Nov 4.

If you cannot afford a kid, do not have sex

Yup, just like in Charles Dickens time. If people are poor, it must be because they're lazy and stupid. Inferior creatures like this should not have access to the basic means of human happiness, such as love and sex. They should be in workhouses where we can beat the evil out of them and made to eat gruel so they're too weak to think carnal thoughts.

Punish the poor! It's their own fault they have nothing.

Back in the World Wars, the army had a constant problem with venereal disease, which is the kind of thing armies always have problems with. When you have something like 1 soldier in 10 weakened or disabled by crabs or the clap, sensible armies police prostitution, inspect brothels, and pass out condoms. The US army had to sneak these health precautions in without the prudes in congress or back home knowing about it, because better we should lose a world war to the Nazis than admit that "our boys" might want to have sex with foriegn women.

This is what Dems are reduced to—working like hell to suppress the birthrate of Americans, and disproportionately poor Americans and those of color, while at the same time importing millions and millions of obedient economic/political slaves from third world countries like Mexico. You’re a racist eugenicist, Nancy with the Laughing Face, and completely unworthy of holding any public office. Oh, and the pope should excommunicate your bony fake Catholic ass pronto. Likewise all the other Dems for Death—Biden, every single damned Kennedy, Kerry, Durbin, the Cuomos, etc.

er, make that *billions* of years of evolution....

It is well known that the liberal elite support contraception in order keep black people from reproducing so as to keep them firmly under heel.

/wingnut

But if people have birth control, then they won't be forced to buy as much baby stuff -- you know, bottles, little clothes, car seats, pacifiers -- what about stimulus for the baby sector?!

This is what Rethugs are reduced to—working like hell to suppress the birthrate of Americans, and disproportionately poor Americans and those of color, while at the same time ...

Fixed

"If poor people stop having children, then where will the cannon fodder AND PRISON LABOR come from?"

There. Fixed that for you.

What's their justification?

They have no justification. None. Zip. Nada. Zero. How can they get away with this?

IOKIYAR. Just ask Obama. You think George W. Bush would have allowed a re-do of his Oath of Office?

So if you don't want kids, don't have sex.

What's more powerful - the sex drive or Christian fundamentalist lectures?

For about 15-20% of Americans, the answer is: lectures. That tells you a lot about them.

"Thank heaven Buchanan and Rush Limbaugh have never bred."

The inclusion of birth control in the stimulus package is necessary, since most people can't use their personalities for birth control, like Pat and Rush do.

Ed

Nancy and Joe and Teddy, the Pope just called. He wants you to come on over to his place so he can beat some sense into your eugenicist and racist hides. Then, you'll be allowed to go to confession. But no more politics for you. The world has had enough of your cynical attempts to keep the poor and minorities from breeding.

xv, using a different handle to inflate your numbers usually works better if you don't use the exact same language both times.

You're welcome!

Adam:

It may be true that abortion opponents don't truly want to control women and claim to be concerned about the babies. But the result of their actions IS control of women, no ifs ands or buts about it. Without legalized abortions, we're talking forced pregnancies, which is second-class citizenship.

If poor people stop having children, then where will the cannon fodder come from?

Don't you know how hard it is to get good help these days?

The wealthy love having a servile working class. And they hate nothing so much as a powerful middle class.

"I've never bought the idea that opposition to abortion is solely about controlling women's bodies. I've just known too many people who were genuinely sincere in their religious beliefs that abortion is wrong."

Unlike Scott Lemieux, Adam is not a hater and doesn't think with his jerking knee. He's also better informed. 80% of pro-lifers support contraception.

I certainly didn’t expect to disguise myself with the new handle “xv”—I was merely playing on the theme of my comments and honoring His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI (but I got in a hurry and I’m not a great Catholic so I messed up on his Roman numeral; sorry, Ben; I do adhere to the Church’s policies on birth control and abortion though). And I’m looking forward to XVI giving those fake Catholic Dems like Pelosi a thrashing for their eugenicist, classist, racist attitudes. If the Pope’s got any energy left after that, there are a hell of a lot of Protestants and Jews who need a good wumping too because of those issues. Go for it, Ben, kick some more eugenicist, classist, racist ass while you’re at it.

Postscript: Nancy's wupped by Pope and gives up the eugenicist, classist, racist proposal (for the moment).

I've never bought the idea that opposition to abortion is solely about controlling women's bodies. I've just known too many people who were genuinely sincere in their religious beliefs that abortion is wrong.

This choice is false. Being sincere in believing abortion wrong doesn't mean your alternative doesn't control women's bodies, even as you state that isn't your intent.

i.e. The end product of both groups - those that want to control women's bodies, and those just feeling "strongly" about abortion - is the same, denying a woman autonomy over her body.

captcrisis -

The majority of pro-life *individuals* support contraception. However, the major prolife organizations are either opposed to it or won't take a position. Even 'feminists for life' won't talk about contraception as a way of preventing abortion. So unless sincere prolife people retake their movement, I don't have a problem with saying it's about controlling women.

And everytime they talk about 'abortion and homosexuality' in the same breath, they prove the point. What's the possible connection other than not liking what people do with their bodies? Say what you will about gay folks, they tend not to have abortions.

I don't see how "sincere in their beliefs" is mutually exclusive from having sexist beliefs. Most religions sincerely promote sexism.

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