Perhaps its not as complicated as you think. (This "committed second wave" woman has, for example, "grappled" with the Clinton delegate count.) Perhaps it's simply that those NARAL chapters are unhappy they weren't consulted before the national office too action in their name.

"Clinton is irretrievably behind in the pledged delegate count and the popular vote"

Not true regarding popular vote. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Not true regarding popular vote. Lather...

that's "took action". Sorry....

Not true regarding the popular vote.

Only if you include a state where Obama's name wasn't on the ballot and another one where neither party was supposed to campaign. Otherwise, yes, he is quite ahead.

It's like a corporation. They make a major decision without shareholder input.. That's not a democracy. They do that kind of stuff in totalitarian counties.. Mommy speaks for people that fund the organization. Huge backlash coming.. and it will Hurt Obama more than anyone else.

I wonder if these same groups would be calling for NARAL to have remained neutral if NARAL had endorsed Hillary.

"Only if you include a state where Obama's name wasn't on the ballot and another one where neither party was supposed to campaign. Otherwise, yes, he is quite ahead."

Exactly. For Clinton to win, all 50 states must be counted. Obama will be given the nod on 48.

"For Clinton to win, all 50 states must be counted."

I agree. Also, it's not like she was the only serious candidate on the ballot in Michigan. Obama should have done what Edwards, Richardson and Dodd did and kept his name on there. And to top it all off, Clinton expressly said at the time that she intended to fight for the voters of Michigan and ensure that their votes would count. Obama should have figured what would happen.

Wait, what's that? Edwards, Richardson and Dodd DID remove their names from the ballot? And Clinton insisted the only reason she remained on it was because everyone knew that Michigan wouldn't count?

Nevermind. Anyone including Michigan vote totals into the overall count is either a lunatic or a liar. I'm not sure which one, though.

"Obama should have figured what would happen."

Exactly. Thank you.

But you can't count Florida and Michigan, because the DNC announced well ahead of time that the primaries being held there would not count toward the nomination. There are voters who didn't vote, because they were assured the primaries wouldn't count. And candidates made strategic decisions based on that. You can't change the rules after the fact, and let votes cast in violation of the rules determine the nomination.

Joe, the case you're making is true, but you're not going far enough. If you count Michigan and Florida, and use a reasonable estimate for how many of the uncommitted voters in Michigan would have been Obama voters, instead of the estimate of zero which has been used by some making the "Clinton is leading or close in the popular vote argument," Obama is still ahead by over 260,000 popular votes.

Actually the statement that Clinton is ahead in popular vote if you include MI and FL is incorrect. Clinton is only ahead in the popular vote if you include MI and FL AND don't count IA, NV, ME, and WA. In other words even if you count MI as is (0 votes for Obama) and FL as is but remember to include ALL the states, not just cherry picked ones, Obama is still ahead.

Think about that, Hillary supporters. Your person is behind even though Obama literally got 0 votes from a big state like Michigan. That's how hopeless your internecine crusade is. I've gotta say, you guys are pathetic. Can't do even simple math.

"Think about that, Hillary supporters. Your person is behind even though Obama literally got 0 votes from a big state like Michigan. That's how hopeless your internecine crusade is. I've gotta say, you guys are pathetic. Can't do even simple math."

Be nice. I think the Clinton camp is counting on low information voters just hearing the "Obama is ahead if you don't count Michigan, but Clinton is ahead if you do" bottom line and thinking "geez, why WOULDN'T you count Michigan?" without realizing that all of the major candidates except Clinton removed their names from the ballot, and when asked why she didn't, Clinton said it was because everyone knew it wasn't going to count.

Clinton wants all 50 states counted! Except for the caucus states, they don't count.

Oh, did Barack win those states? I'm so surprised!

NARAL did the same thing with Joe Lieberman, with similar results. I like Obama a whole lot more than I like Lieberman, but I still don't trust NARAL at the national level. I think Washington DC has gotten to them.

The state chapters are still good, though. Even the ones that don't support the same candidate that I do (shock! amazement!).

Only if you include a state where Obama's name wasn't on the ballot...

Translation: only if you include a state where the savvy Obama team knowingly yanked their candidate's name off the ballot to avoid yet another big loss in a large industrial state primary.

"Translation: only if you include a state where the savvy Obama team knowingly yanked their candidate's name off the ballot to avoid yet another big loss in a large industrial state primary."

Translation of a translation: Only where the savvy Obama team did the same thing as every other significant Democratic candidate EXCEPT Clinton, who explained her failure to follow suit by insisting that she only remained on the ballot because everyone knew it wasn't going to count. (Oh, and this is in a state where Obama consistently polls even or better with Clinton, and where nearly as many people came out to vote for "Undecided" as her.)

Seriously, liar or lunatic -- which one?

This has nothing to do with the likelihood of Hillary winning -- she is still in the race, and Obama has not declared himself the winner. So they are not merely backing the winner, they are chosing one candidate over the other.

As Hillary has an exemplary pro-choice record and consistently beats Obama among women, I can understand why NARAL members, as opposed to their clueless leadership, are steamed.

Ladies,
Please get over yourselves - this election is not about you. You are precisely the reason feminism gets such a bad rap - and I am one of the original feminists! Rejoice - Barack Obama is the presumptive nominee and he is pro-choice. Period.

Run Joe run. The truth will burn if you stray into the light.

Seriously, disingenuous douchebag or narcissistic asshole -- which one?

"Ladies,..."

and the rest was just gravy.