Okay, that's all nice and everything, but from what I read here, all of these people actually did have their vote counted since they live in states that actually followed the rules. Did you even bother to talk to anybody from Florida or Michigan because I don't see how the opinions of someone from New York or Virginia really matter to this point. Especially since their votes were counted -- or were a bunch of ignorant nutjobs the best the HRC campaign could do?

And since I missed the final quote from Ms. Upton in Florida, I guess I have no choice but to label myself as an ignorant nutjob.

I will go crawl back to my hole now. Sorry.

What I think you see from this are two things:

-some Clinton supporters are quite honestly hurt and honestly committed to their candidates

-those Clinton supporters who are hurt are also partisans who are, almost entirely, going to come home in November when Obama is the nominee

I think the tone of reconciliation that I'm seeing in the RBC meeting is a good thing, and will expedite bringing Dreddy and Upton back into the fold to win this election.

obama gamed the system? by winning more delegates?

granted this is a 17 yr-old, but I'm disappointed that Clinton supporters have swallowed such fact-free spin.

Anyone Democrat at that meeting who would not vote for the eventual Democratic nominee in November, and would rather see four more years of Republicans destroying every thing they touch, just makes me wonder.

These people are fools who think too much with their hearts.

The women who are angry that Hillary lost to a black man need to get their heads out of their asses. If Barack loses, they won't see another black person or a female nominated for 20 or 30 years. It'll be a good long time before anyone will be willing to roll the dice on anyone but a white man again.

The others working themselves into a lather over the 'count the vites' mantra are lying to themselves. Their emotion doesn't come from 'disenfranchisement', it comes from backing a losing horse. A case could be made for Florida, but Michigan is a clusterfuck that doesn't even kind of pass the smell test. I know it's easy to transfer your emotion from one place to another, but it's not a very healthy way of dealing with it.

And really, supporting a man who claims that Obama has 1.) given him a blowjob, 2.) helped Wright murder someone, and 3.) plans on murdering him next; thats just plain insane. As are all claims that Obama 'rigged' or 'stole' the election. He won, fair and square. Thats all there is to this. Having more voters isn't 'cheating', neither is having more money. Unsourced MyDD diaries and random internet video clips aren't really evidence of anything but how unhinged some people can be.

Barack Obama is "too guarded with his personal life"? Is that some kind of code?

Obama has possibly the most revealing autobiography of any candidate ever. We know more about Barack Obama's personal life than just about any national politician.

"I don't think the Party should give the nomination to someone who gamed the system."

....

....

Words fail me.

trolllite ranting about unsourced diaries and internet video clips

priceless

Our nominating system needs to be updated. Clinton lost, the undemocratic nature of the primaries just confuses things. It should be fixed by 2012.

Oh look, Anonymous has chosen a name in my honor. You're nothing but a pale reflection of me at this point, how pathetic. You're a Republican posting on a progressive blog trying to start shit, I really think you should look up the word 'Troll'.

P.S. I am pretty white. my Irish ass practically glows in the dark. I'm glad you started hated non-black people, but you really should move beyond the whole skin color thing.

"I don't think the Party should give the nomination to someone who gamed the system."

I agree-- which is why I find the protesters trying to game the system for Clinton deeply disturbing.

"Our nominating system needs to be updated. Clinton lost, the undemocratic nature of the primaries just confuses things. It should be fixed by 2012."

What nonsense, the proportional delegate system is the most fair. It allows poorer candidates with less name recognition to have a shot. Winner take all is always unfair in a democracy.
In fact, pushing the California and Florida primaries to the end of any primary race would be a good idea too.

"I don't think the Party should give the nomination to someone who gamed the system."

Agreed.

"I'm done with you Anonymous. This is the last time I'm ever responding to you.

Posted by: Soullite | May 11, 2008 10:56 AM"

"Oh look, Anonymous has chosen a name in my honor.

Posted by: soullite | June 1, 2008 12:39 AM"

Trolllite: now as credible as the DNC.

Lmao Anonymous, I never thought I'd get you to admit it was you. For a troll, you're really easy to goade. IF you really want me to permanently ignore you, fine. I thought it was obvious that I was just declaring that thread fight over.

Lmao, what happened to the thousands of protesters? All you losers got was 300 NoQuarter whackjobs and a dozen thugs in the committee hall. Pathetic.

johnr asked about protesters from Michigan and Florida at the RBC meeting Saturday.

Reading a bunch of different press accounts from a variety of sources, it does seem that there were far fewer protesters from the disputed states than one would expect. And for that matter, fewer protesters overall than many had expected -- the estimates of actual protesters I've seen have all been under 500, not greatly outnumbering members of the press. Several reports from inside meeting room said that almost all of the really disruptive chanting and shouting (as distinct from the applause and cheering) during the meeting came from a very small number of really belligerent folks -- maybe a dozen. In short, the protests both inside and outside the meeting seem to be the result of a very small, very loud, number of people. It just doesn't come across as a protest by folks with a huge groundswell of public support behind them.

Again, what everyone forgets about Obama is he's just too far left for most Democrats. He did "game the system", and you all can say that "words fail you" until you're blue. He had 90% of the black vote. He had the unthinking support of white liberals. He had no need to win over anyone else--and for the most part, he didn't. Early on, he did win some independents, mostly because of anti-Hillary sentiment, but once his lack of accomplishments became known, he lost them.

He's simply too far left. He has no accomplishments. All he's ever done is get elected and then look around for the next job, finding some more powerful person to give him the appearance of competence. His actual performance at every job he's ever had has been less than zero, and his ethics are worthless. He simply doesn't have the (admittedly low) baseline principle and character to be president.

So if you are unhappy with Obama, but have always been a good Democrat, check out Don't Be a Good Democrat. Voting for McCain might be safer than you think.

Absolutely, Cal, you're right! A vote for McCain is a vote for:

-- Women to lose freedom of choice

-- The economy to continue sinking into the sewer

-- Endless war in Iraq, and if we're really lucky, Iran too!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Sounds wonderful! (Don't forget there's a gas tax holiday, too!) Did you vote Nader in 2000, too, Cal? We all know how well that worked out.

These angry, clawing DLC types are still trying to scream, just like they have since the mid-1980s, that the problem with the party is all these extremist liberal and labor types and if you'd only let us normal moderate DLC types in power then we could, like, lose Congress from 1994 - 2006, whereas the crazy liberals backed by the wacko blogosphere won it back from DLC failures.

Oh, come now, Persia. Upgrade your talking points.

Even if McCain got his judges (he won't) and even if they overturned Roe vs. Wade (they wouldn't), women won't "lose their right to choose". Really, some of you are dumb enough to think that Roe vs. Wade makes abortion legal, rather than mandating that it can't be illegal.

And you're utterly delusional if you think anyone's getting the troops out of Iraq any time soon.

Obama "too far to the left"? I wish. Both he and Clinton are at virtually the same place--much too far to the right.

What's interesting though is why he's perceived as far left--and why Clinton has been perceived as being to the right. The only explanation I can think of is that "left" and "right" are now merely labels for personal style, including class-markers that politicians feign. So, e.g. wine is to the left of bourbon and a Prius makes you a Socialist.

Left as I understand it means you favor big government financed by high taxes and state intervention to promote wellbeing and social justice through income transfers, social programs and social engineering. Left means welfare state.

But as Locke said everyone is at liberty to attach what articulate sounds he pleases to whatever ideas he wishes. So you can redefine terms as you wish. To avoid confusion maybe we need to introduce a replacement for the left-right metaphor to describe the continuum of political views from Tax-and-Spend Welfare-Statism (my own view) and Cut-Throat Play-Without-a-Net Winner-Take-Allism.

Really, some of you are dumb enough to think that Roe vs. Wade makes abortion legal, rather than mandating that it can't be illegal.

That's exactly why I'm concerned, Cal. Or is it okay when women from South Dakota can't get abortions?

And since when does 'he won't' and 'they wouldn't' support any claim?

You haven't addressed the war in Iran McCain so desperately wants, either.

Look, I'm only a reluctant Obama supporter myself, as the lesser of three evils. But these Clinton dead enders make me sick. They are fucking scum who do not deserve to live, almost as bad as Bush dead enders.

80% of the citezens of this nation are disgustingly evil pieces of shit. They deserve every bad thing that happens to us. I just feel bad for the other 20%, though I feel worse for our many victims throughoiut the world.

Meyerson has turned in to such a hack this primary season that Tapped no longer allows comments on his pieces. Are The Editors trying to protect his fragile ego or The American Prospect's reputation.

"Again, what everyone forgets about Obama is he's just too far left for most Democrats."

Except, you know, for the majority of Democrats, who voted for him.

"Again, what everyone forgets about Obama is he's just too far left for most Democrats."

Complete nonsense. He's not even "too far left" for most voters, including independents, which is why you don't even bother to try to support such a silly statement. Next time, turn your brain on before you post.

Except, you know, for the majority of Democrats, who voted for him.

Wrong. According to the exit polls, a majority of Democrats supported Clinton. We can debate what a majority of the voters did, but people who think of themselves as Democrats supported Clinton around 54-46.

And of course it's true that Obama is too far left. His actual views--not the ones on his website, which were written by others--are well to the left of center. He's demonstrated nothing except hackery.

What's really a joke is that Hillary dead enders are worse than the Monster herself in some respects. Sure, Hillary is a lying, twisted excuse for a human being who cares for nothing in life except for herself and her bottomless quest for power, but you get the sense that she is too smart to really believe the crap she is spewing regarding Michigan; it was all about a last, desperate (failed) attempt to convince the super delegates to destroy the party by handing her the nomination.

But her supporters actually seem to buy that crap. It is really scary that adults with the right to vote are that credulous. Scary but not surprising; your average American voter has long been a living advertisement for the perils of Democracy.

Anyway, if I haven't made myself clear, my message to Hilary supporters: fuck you.

"Far from being the homogenous group of angry, white, middle aged women cariacatured in many media reports..."

If by media reports, you mean the "truthiness" of pictures and video, then maybe you're right.

To the extent that Obama's actual views can be discerned--which isn't easy to do--it appears that he is somewhat liberal leaning though rarely sticks his neck out for anything.

"And of course it's true that Obama is too far left."

Of course it's not true, which is why you still cannot even bother to try to support such a silly assertion, much less identify a single position or vote of Obama's that is "too far left." This is just stupid.

McCain is unacceptable. His voting record, his stance on a 100 year war, his anti-choice, and anti-gay views make him unacceptable for this Hillary loving Democrat. Based on the issues, and my core beliefs, I will gladly vote for Sen. Obama.
I believe a vast majority of Hillary supporters will eventually feel the same. Too much is at stake to allow another republican with war without end beliefs destroy our country.

Support it? Is that a joke? Do you really think that the only people who aren't supporting Obama, who have been voting for Clinton despite being assured she had no chance for 3+ months, are all racists or feminists?

No. They're moderates who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama. It's not diehard Clinton support; it's a rejection of Obama, his values, and his beliefs as shown by his life (as opposed to his website).

"Support it? Is that a joke?"

LOL.... Nope, but you sure are. I will simply note that despite being repeatedly asked, you have not provided a single position or vote of Obama's that is "too far left." Do you really think that nobody has noticed your continual evasion and failure to support your idiotic assertions?

Oh, well, at least your posts are funny, so there is some saving grace.

"No. They're moderates who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama. It's not diehard Clinton support; it's a rejection of Obama, his values, and his beliefs as shown by his life (as opposed to his website)."

Can you provide one shred of evidence that they're voting against Obama because he's far too left.

"No. They're moderates who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama. It's not diehard Clinton support; it's a rejection of Obama, his values, and his beliefs as shown by his life (as opposed to his website)."

Can you provide one shred of evidence that they're voting against Obama because he's far too left?

Can you provide one shred of evidence that they're voting against Obama because he's far too left?

Of course he can't. On a related topic, I wonder if he realizes just how much he insulted Hillary Clinton supporters by that remark?

But these Clinton dead enders make me sick. They are fucking scum who do not deserve to live, almost as bad as Bush dead enders.

Larry, I voted for Hillary. I still feel that she would be a better candidate than Obama. How does that make me "fucking scum"?

I've supported Democratic candidates longer than many Obama supporters have been alive. Bill and Hillary Clinton were one of the few people who could figure out how to beat Republicans at their game.

Furthermore, their take on policy generally matched mine. Obama has the "Harry and Louise" pamphlets I don't like. He has trashed Bill's time in office, which I don't appreciate, and he was a complete unknown, in effect, a pretty face, with pretty words. I don't necessarily trust pretty words until I see some guts behind it.

How does that make me "fucking scum"?

Go Cheney yourself.