EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CHAIR OF THE NEW PECORA COMMISSION.
On Wednesday, Congressional leaders announced the membership of a new commission to investigate the roots of the financial crisis. It is modeled on the Pecora Commission, which investigated the 1929 Wall Street crash and led to much-needed reform, including the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission. This afternoon, I spoke to the chair of the Commission, former California Treasurer Phil Angelides, about what he hopes to accomplish and concerns that the commision may be rendered ineffective by partisan quarrels. The entire interview (which is lightly edited) follows after the jump; here are a few interesting points to get you started.
The commission has the ability to subpoena information, but only if at least one of the Republican appointees supports the decision. Are you at all concerned about disagreement within the committee hurting its ability to gather information?When the speaker and the majority leader asked me to serve as chair, [I knew] this would be a hard and difficult road. I'm starting on the assumption that other commissioners, like myself, are interested in getting to the facts and the root causes. If we have to issue subpoenas, I hope we can do that. Hopefully people [with information] will cooperate, but if not, we were given the tools to get the facts. I would want to start on the basis that no commissioner would want to deprive us of information to make a good judgment on behalf of the American people. The commission is interesting because it really focuses on the inquiry, rather than the policy and political implications. I think that gives us a better chance of coming up with a nonpartisan, bipartisan findings of facts.
Some people take a cynical attitude to blue ribbon commissions like this one, suggesting that they're a way for public officials to avoid their responsibilities. What do you expect to accomplish?
We start, obviously, with a great interest in finding the truth. Clearly there have been reports from blue ribbon commissions that sit on shelves that no one ever sees, but there have been important moments in this country where bipartisan, nonpartisan panels have risen to the occasion, people have set aside their bipartisan interest to render judgments and find facts that are politically important. The Pecora Commission is obviously one instance of that. In the wake of the 1929 crash, the work of that commission really shined the light of day on what brought the country to its economic knees. The 9/11 Commission, I believe, did an important service in highlighting the failures that made America vulnerable to a terrorist attack. The Kerner Commission in the 1960s was a very important moment in delineating the racial divide in this country.
Do you believe we already have a broad understanding of what led to this crisis, or do you feel there are a lot of questions still unanswered?
All of us come with our personal views. I'll start by saying that in the early part of this decade, as early as 2002, I was concerned about what was happening the marketplace. I was deeply concerned about executive compensation so I mobilized shareholders across the country to push back on executive compensation. I was concerned about lax enforcement at the SEC. ... I was part of a movement of activist shareholders in an effort to bring some common sense to the market place. In the wake of the Enron and Worldcom, we had some momentum, but the economy recovered and the regulators took their foot off the brakes. We all come in with our own viewpoints, but our job is to look at this fresh.
Check out the rest after the jump.
-- Tim Fernholz
Why is this commission important?
The magnitude of what's happened in this country is astounding. Millions of people have lost their homes, millions of people have lost their life savings, millions of Americans have seen their pensions disappear. We have seen over a trillion dollars in taxpayer money go to prop up a dying financial system. This is a cataclysm. My view is that there is a real hunger in this country to have a pursuit of the truth, to find out what happened and why it happened, so hopefully, instead of sweeping it under the rug, it will not happen again in our lifetimes. This is an important commission with a critical role of serving the nation's best interests because we are called on to look into something that has been fundamentally important to this country: The very foundations of our financial system have been shaken.
Some people take a cynical attitude to blue ribbon commissions like this one, suggesting that they're a way for public officials to avoid their responsibilities. What do you expect to accomplish?
We start, obviously, with a great interest in finding the truth. Clearly there have been reports from blue ribbon commissions that sit on shelves that no one ever sees, but there have been important moments in this country where bipartisan, nonpartisan panels have risen to the occasion, people have set aside their bipartisan interest to render judgments and find facts that are politically important. The Pecora Commission is obviously one instance of that. In the wake of the 1929 crash, the work of that commission really shined the light of day on what brought the country to its economic knees. The 9/11 Commission, I believe, did an important service in highlighting the failures that made America vulnerable to a terrorist attack. The Kerner Commission in the 1960s was a very important moment in delineating the racial divide in this country.
Many people associate this new effort with the original Pecora commission. What kind of legacy do you inherit from that earlier effort?
The tradition is seeking the truth. If you look at our mandate, we have to go to the root causes of this. Will this become a partisan divide? My view is that the truth knows no partisan boundaries, and if we are strong and relentless in pursuit of the truth, if we're willing to turn over every rock, I think we can do a great service to the American people. We can expose what happened and why it happened so it is less likely to happen again. The most successful of national commissions is when there's been truth seeking. I’m just very hopeful that all the commissioners will be dedicated to that mission. We may disagree at the end on policy remedies, but in many respects the commission's most important role so that the President and the Congress and the public can make the best determinations on how to move forward.
"Pecora" refers to Ferdinand Pecora, who was the investigating counsel for the senate banking committee. Have you given any thought to what kind of staff you're going to bring on board the FCIC?
The statute calls for the director and the staff to be appointed by the chair and the vice chair. With that in mind -- and by the way I've already had a number of conversations with Bill Thomas, the Vice Chair. He's expressed a real interest in doing this right, and I'm going to start on the basis that that's what every commissioner wants to do. [We want] someone who's strong, who can lead a team on behalf of the commission to conduct a thorough inquiry, someone who will be a pursuer o the truth and lead a team on behalf of the commission, someone who's not timid but also someone who has got good judgment. The purpose here is not to sweep anything under the rug but also not to have a circus. This is serious business.
The commission has the ability to subpoena information, but only if at least one of the Republican appointees supports the decision. Are you at all concerned about disagreement within the committee hurting its ability to gather information?
When the speaker and the majority leader asked me to serve as chair, [I knew] this would be a hard and difficult road. I'm starting on the assumption that other commissioners, like myself, are interested in getting to the facts and the root causes. If we have to issue subpoenas, I hope we can do that. Hopefully people [with information] will cooperate, but if not, we were given the tools to get the facts. I would want to start on the basis that no commissioner would want to deprive us of information to make a good judgment on behalf of the American people. The commission is interesting because it really focuses on the inquiry, rather than the policy and political implications. I think that gives us a better chance of coming up with a nonpartisan, bipartisan findings of facts.
It's interesting that even as this commission is about to begin investigating the cause of this crisis, Congress and the Administration are already working to pass reform legislation to fix those problems. Do you think that's putting the cart in front of the horse?
I don't think that I want to tell the president and the congress, ‘sit and do nothing.’ Our work can go in parallel. As we begin our work, as we have public hearings and testimony, as we release information to the public, policymakers will get the benefit of the information we turn up. [For example, on the issue of financial regulations,] one discussion is, do we want ‘Structure A’ or ‘Structure B’? But more important than that is, what are the regulators going to be looking for? It's important to give the next generation of regulators a road map. Our work will be a guidebook. As we produce our final report, if there is more work that needs to be done, our report can be a call to action. I don't think it serves anyone's interest to hold up the consideration of reform.
Do you plan on releasing information to the public during the course of the investigation, or do you expect to embargo your findings until the final report is complete?
The commission will have to meet together [to make those decisions], but it's pretty clear that the statute calls on us to have public hearings. We don't want to do anything to undermine the power of our work, and we don't want to be putting out half-information, but to the extent that we can do this in a way where the public is informed about our work, that is critically important.
Do you believe we already have a broad understanding of what led to this crisis, or do you feel there are a lot of questions still unanswered?
All of us come with our personal views. I'll start by saying that in the early part of this decade, as early as 2002, I was concerned about what was happening the marketplace. I was deeply concerned about executive compensation so I mobilized shareholders across the country to push back on executive compensation. I was concerned about lax enforcement at the SEC. ... I was part of a movement of activist shareholders in an effort to bring some common sense to the market place. In the wake of the Enron and Worldcom, we had some momentum, but the economy recovered and the regulators took their foot off the brakes. We all come in with our own viewpoints, but our job is to look at this fresh.
Do you worry that as the economy (hopefully) recovers, the urgency and importance of this committee's work will be diminished? Some people are citing recent earnings reports of large banks as a sign that the system is back to normal.
I hope the economy improves, because so many people are suffering. But I also hope that we have the sense to look at what's happened here. While the earnings of Goldman and Citi may be up, depending on what count you use, when you take unemployed people in this country, underemployed people, people who have stopped looking at work, there's over 20 million Americans who are unemployed or underemployed. We have a very tough season in front of us, so I hope this is not swept under the rug if the market picks up.
What is your message to the public as you begin this task?
The best guidepost for the commission is to seek the truth, like that all old dragnet line, ‘just the facts.’ And the facts will speak for themselves. If facts are on the table, what happened, not speculation, not political tilt, if facts are on the table about what has occurred, people will come to reasonable and rational judgments. There's a lot of talent on this commission. There's always an interesting phenomenon when people are given an important charge, they often rise to that occasion. I was particularly compelled by the seriousness by which the speaker and the majority leader have taken this. The speaker's admonition to me when she asked me to serve was to do the right thing for the country. People are looking to the Commission. There are high expectations, and I hope we can fulfill them.
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COMMENTS (3)
Not to slight Mr. Angelides, whos has a strong track record as a public servant, but the Democrats (especially the Senate Majority Leader) really blew this opportunity to put strong folks on this commission who could press hard and know the subject matter - people like Pat McCoy of UConn Law, Vicki Been of NYU Law, or Marty Gruenberg of the FDIC. Instead they basically used to reward donors and allies who have no real value added. (Again, I am not really referring to Mr. Angelides so much as the other D appointees.)
Meanwhile, the R's pick Peter Wallison of AEI, who - though he generally twists the facts much too liberally, is well versed and skilled in promoting deregulation and laying the blame on things like government action (rather than inaction) with absolutely no real evidence.
If it goes the way I fear - like laying principal blame for the mortgage crisis on CRA and the GSE affordable housing goals as Wallison will aim to do - I can only hope the Commission gets ignored.
Posted by: dwi | July 17, 2009 7:01 PM
I'd love to see the same questions asked of the Bill Thomas, the Republican chair. I expect that he and his GOP colleagues will be fighting against revelation of the debauchery in the financial system at every step of the way, except perhaps when the subjects of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and CRA come up.
Although Congress will have passed an initial set of regulations before the final report comes out, I see that one of the important roles of the commission is to reignite public outrage after the initial wave has died down. It looks like Congress's first round of regulation and will give in to most of the demands of the big banks and Wall Street, but if the commission is successful in revealing the deep structural problems of the financial system, Congress could act again in a more positive way.
Posted by: meander | July 18, 2009 1:12 PM
Angelides is a really good pick for this. He definitely has a lot of relevant experience, is a total workaholic and policy wonk, and a fighter. The republicans on this commission are going to HATE him personally and professionally by the time this is over.
Posted by: Daniel | July 20, 2009 5:19 PM