Ah, the twisted logic of rage and fear. Those were clearly the fuel energizing these two. A very dangerous brew indeed. It makes people stupid and weak-minded. Cases in point.

Trolls. They're from Colorado Springs. Do the math.

Hmmm. Someone 35 years old who voted for Nixon at age 18? For what office? Richard Nixon resigned the presidency 34 years ago this month.

two idiots pissing in the wind...

Well I will give the Republican the right to go back to mcCain. At least she is consistent.
The other fool who thinks Superdelegates are going to vote for Hillary, that's quite another thing.

What the hell is wrong with these people? Do they have invisible Futurama-style brain slugs?

Someone 35 years old who voted for Nixon at age 18?

No, 35 years ago she started voting Democratic. (Check the picture; 35 is quite a distance in her rear-view mirror.)

Regardless: the two haven't a brain between them. "When they see superdelegates switching to Hillary?" If anyone switches it'll be the other way, and "nothing would please my soul" better to see idiots like them humiliated that way.

They "feel safe" with McCain! (sigh) McCain will start up the Cold War again with his blistering, war-mongering rhetoric faster than he and Cindy can buy another house.

Idiots. Eitehr trolls trying to stir up grief or complete & utter idiots.

I voted for HRC early on & then her despicable race-baiting tactics maybe me regret that choice.

When one is in the liberal "bubble", daily swallowing the propaganda from the liberal outlets, one can be surprised by the real world.

Yes, Virginia, there are people out there that see through the empty suit....even loyal Democrats!

When one is in the liberal "bubble", daily swallowing the propaganda from the liberal outlets, one can be surprised by the real world.

Yes, Virginia, there are people out there that see through the empty suit....even loyal Democrats!

El Viajero -

Projective myopia if ever I saw it. At least you have now been successfully diagnosed and can seek treatment.

Living out of fear and ignorance can not be comfortable, but passing it on to others is just wrong.

We've seen a lot of evidence of people who supported both McCain and Clinton in the primaries.

My guess is that most of those people were Republicans who knew how to run against the Clinton brand and dreamed of a rematch of the 1990 culture wars. Among the punditry we had Rupert Murdoch, Bill Kristol, Rich Lowry, Charles Krauthammer, and Fred Barnes all praising the "sensible" Clinton against the radicals Edwards and Obama. Most were never going to vote for Clinton in the end or hoped that at worst they'd be primed and ready to come back against her in 2012.

Next time ask them issues questions first.

These two women have to be two of the stupidest women in the world. And that leads me to ask, why bother giving them a forum to spout their stupidty?

I've heard interviews like this before and come away with the same impression then that I do of these two: they're just Republicans when it comes down to it.

Well, johnr you have a forum here, why shouldn't they?

Why is the discussion on this page so uncivil? Throwing insults at someone you disagree with does not make your case stronger!

Don't be too hard on them. I'm a Hillary supporter that has never ever voted Republican, but have decided to vote for McCain in '08.

I know people will cry racism on the turn of a dime, but it's not that he's black, it's that he's too green.

I supported Hillary but will vote for McCain. Trust me, I have a brain and that's why I'm not voting for Obama.

I am a Senator Clinton supporter but will also vote for Senator McCain. Barack Obama, his wife, friends and preacher scare the living hell out of me. Can't imagine that group controlling the country. Shudder.

The morons emerge from the shadows. Do you need someone to tell you to breathe so you don't pass out?

I'm really surprised how many of the people I speak to think I'm a Republican when I say that I've decided to change my party affiliation and vote for McCain. Like it’s not fathomable for them to even consider a party member thinking in those terms. The arrogance of the extreme left of the party is just staggering. You say, I must be a Republican and committing some subterfuge or a Republican at heart. I’ve been conservative Democrat for my entire military career and have voted for Democratic, Republican and Independent candidates. It was an honor to be able to cast an absentee ballet for my home state of PA for both Governor Casey and Senator Spector. This man was not allowed to speak at out convention because of his pro-life position. You swallow your pride and hope for the tenor of our message and position to change. Most recently, I found myself both deployed to a war if two theaters and a member of the party that seemed to be hoping that we’d lose at least on one front. You think that these people who I have thought through the years to be of the same political thought as me are misguided but maybe still have the military’s best interest at heart in their opposition the effort in the war. Murtha from my home state and our current VP Candidate both condemned the Marines from Haditha before they even had a trial. You grit your teeth and say this can’t be my party. There is no place for a pro-life conservative in it anymore. Senator Clinton’s railroading and Senator Obama’s lying about the Infancy Protection Act were the very last straws for me. I’m sure my switching to Independent will have no effect on this election, but it’ll sure have a big effect on my self-respect. You can believe it not, but a lot of my friends and people I work with who have espoused the Democratic platform from at least a Democratic “Conservative” point of view here in the military have had enough.

Question for you Obama supporters...

You claim that these two women are stupid because they decided to support McCain. Why do you think it is intelligent to support Obama? He talks a good talk, but what has he done to earn your support? Obama has proven that is it possible for the Democrat party to nominate a candidate that is actually worse than Kerry. Fess up, the only reason that you will vote for him is because he has a (D) after his name.

One other thing that seems to be true about what I've always heard said about us. That we're really the party that's extreme and mean-spirited. Look at what you're saying here. Do you even know these women? No, but you go straight for the throat. You're not willing to listen to anyone that says they have reservations about the direction of the party so you have to dismiss them in the most caustic language you can muster.

i love the insults from you morons. eat your own, hahahaha

If you Obama supporters can name ANY one of the following two things I will switch my vote to him:
1) ONE instance he defied the Democratic leadership and took a position on a major issue that can be legitimately defined as "bipartisan" or reaching across the aisle.
2) A true accomplishment in the Senate, a bill that is known as the Obama bill with some major significance in our society.
Hillary at least had some exposure to foreign policy and executive decisions. Obama is the least qualified, most unexperienced and less accomplished major party candidate in History. That's why many Democrats won't vote for him.

when ever some one disagrees with the extreme left as most Obama supporters are, all they do is call names and slander people. And the republicans are supposed to be the fascists? Gimme a break. The lefts attacks on people who don't agree with them is what made me switch from a democrat to a republican. Keeps it up guys. Your childish attacks are going to help McCain. So please please keep it up.

That we're really the party that's extreme and mean-spirited.

Since you've parroted every Republican talking point of the last 2 years, I can only assume that you're referring to the Republican party.

As for the rest of you who "supported" Hillary but have now decided to vote for McCain, maybe you could name a single issue where McCain is closer to Clinton than Obama is. Health care, women's rights, taxes, the economy, civil liberties, even the war? McCain and Clinton are not even close.

I've known a lot of liberals and a lot of conservatives, but I've never met anyone who wants to get it done - but doesn't particularly care what it is.

Jinchi...woman rights? Were not living in the 50s any more pal. On wait you must be talking about that made up right for a woman to murder her child. J get it.

George Mcorby,

"Hillary had some exposure"... really? That's your argument?

I don't think for a second that Barack Obama is the guy for you. You need a DC insider, and John McCain, with 26 years in the Senate sounds like just the fix.

For many, though, if they are Democrats or people who just believe that their principles are most closely aligned with the Democrats, are not switching to John McCain.

These women are angry, and have the false sense that Hillary somehow gets in in 2012 if Obama loses. I find that a bit presumptuous.

But at their core, I don't believe they are truly aligned with Democrat principles, period. If they took away their rage at what they believe was somehow some unjust occurrence this Primary season (she lost, guys), and look at McCain, he has a horrendous choice record, womens' rights record, and while that's okay for some women, any woman who claims they are true blue Dems are simply lying or not letting their rage subside enough to pay attention.

So go ahead and vote for McCain. The s=Senate accomplishments from him include a lot of things most Dems would not be so proud of, peppered with a scandal here and there. Like any Senator, being inside the beltway is not conducive to being 100% perfect.

Obama has worked across the aisle, but has not had a ton of experience in DC. I find that to be a positive, and look to his leadership in Chicago, on the streets with the poor, instead of in a clubby room in DC.

But go ahead, JohnMcCain.com is the place for you and a few misguided Democrats and angry dead-enders to go.

Just don't plan on having your gal get much support in 2012.

To the McCain trolls out in force earning their McCain Brownie points I say "Well Done" Brownies!

McCain is anti-woman, stupid war, ignorant strategy, and has as much loyalty to America as he did to his first wife.

McCain is a right-wing extremist, maybe he wasn't 8 years ago but now that the Republican Party has broken him in McCain legalized torture, embraced agents of intolerance, voted for mutli-millionaire heiresses tax-cuts that offends the conscience of anybody that had to work for a living instead of either inheriting or marrying wealth, and worse, McCain's lobbyists are ready to start a war to win the election.

Anybody with any military sense, honor, or decency will repudiate McCain's reckless belligerence, dishonorable politics, and grotesque indecency.

For most this has less to do with wanting Clinton elected than with realizing how bad Obama would be for this country. That's what you enlightened souls with all the insults just don't get. You too, Col Bat Guano. No points, just insults.

To: jose rebecca vicsmith hawkster DCGamer

I'm thankful for your thoughtfullness. No slams or claims of superiority here. I'm just so grateful that there are people like you in our fantastic country. I knew you were here.

=)

George McGorby:
1) The Obama-Lugar Nuclear Nonproliferation Bill:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070628-obama_lugar_sec/

"First introduced in November 2005 and enacted in 2007, the Lugar-Obama initiative enhances U.S. efforts to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles and to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction throughout the world."

Richard Lugar's a very conservative Republican.

1B) Obama-Coburn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountability_and_Transparency_Act_of_2006

Coburn's *extremely* conservative, and yet Obama worked with him to create a searchable database of all federal contracts--transparency and openness.

I don't know if either one of those count as "defying party leadership," but they're sure as heck bipartisan.

By the way, can you name any time Ronald Reagan defied party leadership in a way in which he moved to the left prior to his running for President in 1980? (Notice the question--he has to move to the left.) Given that McCain's voted with George W. Bush 95% of the time, it's a little odd to be so invested in "defying the party."

As for the attacks on the two McCain supporters, one of them is clearly being attacked because she is, as she admits, a conservative Republican who--as Jinchi pointed out--probably only wanted Hillary to win because they had the whole apparatus primed to runa gainst her. Why is a conservative Republican attending the Democratic convention, except to be dishonest? We don't go to your conventions and pretend we supported Ron Paul but are now going to Obama.

Finally, Bob Casey Sr. wasn't denied a speaking spot in 1992 because he was pro-life (John Breaux was pro-life & spoke, Howell Heflin was pro-life)--Casey was either denied because he didn't endorse Clinton-Gore.

After they'd won the nomination.

How many Republicans who *haven't* endorsed their party's nominee get prime-time spots speaking at the conventions? I'd be curious to know.

I think it's something like 0.

Anybody? Anybody? Bueller? Anybody?

"Obama has worked across the aisle."

If someone can show me any evidence of that, I'll consider supporting the guy.

Holy shit, the trolls are really out in force on this post.

Sooo.... "rage and fear" is obamaspeak for "dissent"?

Sooo.... "rage and fear" is obamaspeak for "dissent"?

What do Obama and Osama have in common?

Both have close friends who bombed the Pentagon...

"As for the rest of you who "supported" Hillary but have now decided to vote for McCain, maybe you could name a single issue where McCain is closer to Clinton than Obama is."

They both supported and still support the war in their own way and both do everything they can to support us in the military. Senator Obama voted against a bill that would provide up-armor to HMVS.

"As for the rest of you who "supported" Hillary but have now decided to vote for McCain, maybe you could name a single issue where McCain is closer to Clinton than Obama is."

Ummm.... Neither have any friends who bombed the Pentagon???

Interesting, isn't it, how "liberals" are so lovely when you agree with them, hateful when you don't agree with them.

Perhaps it's because, like Barry O, their arguments have had no experience in the real world.

Who did you vote for in the past few elections?

KB: Bush. I changed from Republican to Democrat for Hillary. Hillary lost, but I'm still a registered Democrat. I'm going to vote for McCain.

---------------------

Two words:

Operation Chaos

My God hawkster, when in the hell are you ever going to learn the deal about Casey? The guy's abortion stance had nothing to do with anything at the 1992 DNC. He didn't get to speak because he wouldn't endorse Clinton.

How many times does that talking point have to be debunked for you morons?

Now excuse me because I'm going to go bang my head on cement so that maybe I can damage my brain enough to understand some of the thinking I'm reading over here.

"I know people will cry racism on the turn of a dime, but it's not that he's black, it's that he's too green.

Posted by: jose | August 25, 2008 4:51 PM "

Exactly, very well stated.

"Why is the discussion on this page so uncivil? Throwing insults at someone you disagree with does not make your case stronger!

Posted by: An Independent | August 25, 2008 3:54 PM"

I agree, it is uncivil and the reason for this incivility (in IMHO) based on my experiences with the far left is it's ok to have an opinion so long as it's in line with THEIR opinion, anything else is unacceptable and yet at the same time the far left is always crying about "the man" infringing on their right to free speech or to live and think for themselves!

Also, it's common for the far left to resort to insults the moment they realize they are losing a debate.

"They "feel safe" with McCain! (sigh) McCain will start up the Cold War again with his blistering, war-mongering rhetoric faster than he and Cindy can buy another house.

Posted by: T Vernon | August 25, 2008 1:31 PM"

Hmmm...your "logic" is shall I say...interesting...? So you think McCain will re-ignite the cold war? That's very odd logic considering it was Russia that recently invaded Georgia!

I'd say the cold war has already been re-ignited an it started when Putin took power in Russia, something McCain has nothing to do with, first because he's not the leader of Russia and secondly he's not the President of the US...YET!

Putin is KGB through and through, he's old school Russian communist, if anyone should get the "blame" for re-igniting the cold war I'd say that blame rests on Putin's shoulders, but then again the far left likes to blame everything on the "evil rethuglicans."

What's really humorous about that is the fact the far left (as some of the posters on this thread have stated) says the right is "fear mongering" to get you to vote for them, yet I see much more evidence of radical Islamic terrorists blowing up and killing innocent people then I see evidence of a "vast right wing conspiracy" to scare the people into voting for republicans and to create a "police state!" Talk about fear mongering, perhaps the far left should look in the mirror once in a while or at the very least listen to what they espouse and come up with at least a shred of evidence to support their wild theories!

To the McCain trolls out in force earning their McCain Brownie points I say "Well Done" Brownies!

Actually, I don't think these guys are even trying.

Seriously we need some more believability in the concern trolls on the site. Bill Kristol managed better than this.

"How many times does that talking point have to be debunked for you morons?"

First, Kathleen Brown was allowed to speak and she didn't endorse them either. The point was it wasn't key-note or even a major coverage slot he wanted. Governer Casey simply requested to speak on a minority plank about being pro-life. The other pro-life speakers were not allowed and didn't speak at all about the abortion issue. So, I seriously doubt with all there was about the issue, you really have any call to label me as a moron. I'm close to 50 and have been a Democrat and following politics for a long time.

But like I said. My own party turns instantly caustic when you have a different view. I'm pro-life and Senator Obama is about as diametrically opposed to that concept as one could be. Senator Clinton supported the Born-Alive Protection Act. She should be our nominee unless it's our desire to go completely off the left deep-end.

I have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Whether or not you think my opinion is moronic, I've got a least as much right to voice my opinion about what has happened to my party and the party of my parents as anyone else. But no more than you.

I responded without calling names, without being uncivil and without being condescending. I realize everyone has their right to their opinion. It's one of the things I believe I've fought for. You sure couldn't have an opinion under the Taliban. So just consider a little more decorum with the discourse.

Smiling Sunshine, thanks for the comment.

Sorry,

Anonymous at 8pm was me.

(Clumsy but still not a moron) :-)

I'm also a Hillary supporter who is now leaning toward McCain.

Let me just say this: You guys don't make me want to vote for Obama by insulting those of us who supported Hillary, ok?

There are legitimate reasons to worry about an Obama presidency. Some of us are still grappling with his associations and lack of experience.

Try some civility, guys. We're all in this together.

I've been a registered Dem for 40 years. I voted pretty much straight Dem for 36 of them.

Not any more. This party has lost its bearings. It's been taken over by the immature, the nasty, the closedminded, the thought police.

hawkster, I'm the wife of a retired military. You're not alone.

Obama supporters! Keep up the good work. You and your messiah have turned half of Hillary Democrats into McCain Democrats. With your elitism and arrogace it won't be long before you turn the other half.

She's a diehard Republican!

Yes, she is. Fine, but perhaps she shouldn't parade around as a Democrat when she isn't.

For the Hillary supporters who pledge not to vote for Obama and hope Hillary will run again let me say this: Perhaps Obama will lose and Hillary will run again. At that point she will need Obama's supporters every bit as much as he now needs her supporters. I hope Obama's former supporters wouldn't be equally petulant, but I wouldn't blame them if they were.

Folks like this have no idea how badly they are damaging the one they profess to care so much about, Hillary Clinton. If Obama loses, someone like Mark Warner will be the next Democratic nominee.

I'm not sure why the Obama supporters discount the anger of the Hillary folk so much. In 1992, I, along with many other Conservatives and Republicans was so angry at Bush I for breaking his word on Taxes that we took a chance on Clinton being half the conservative we hoped he might be and voted for him. Bush I lost in part because of the loss of support from folk like me.

The Hillary supporters may just be the straw that breaks Obama's electoral back if you will forgive the license.

Think again about your vituperative comments folks, you are NOT helping Obama by castigating the Hillary supporters, Obama NEEDS them big time and you ought to be doing everything you can to keep them in the Dem fold. On the other hand, I'm enjoying your schadenfraude.

Riiiiight. McCain will restart the Cold War. Did it ever occur to you folks that Russia is already trying to angle into one again?

Oh, wait. You're the crowd that watches as Iran kills American soldiers then whines that Bush is trying to start a war with Iran.

Nevermind. Wrong crowd. I'm looking for the one that isn't full of a bunch of nihilistic solipsists.

We're not castigating Hillary supporters. We're pointing out that *some* of Hillary's supporters are weak-minded, irrational, illogical nutbags.

These women are not thinking logically, or even thinking at all. they are throwing a public temper tantrum like petulant little children that didn't get their way.

Let them go. The Democratic party is a weaker place with weak, childish minds like that anyway.

civility is stupidity's handmaiden.

any female democrat who supported clinton and is now going to vote for mccain is a fucking moron. and should be called one.

it's not about tolerating someone else's belief's. my beliefs, obama's belief's, and clinton's belief's on most issues are fairly close: namely the democratic party platform. I've no beef with an anti-choice woman who thinks mccain best represents her on that issue. b/c he does.

but for most everyone else, the condemnation above is about calling bullshit on completely incoherent politics. you simply cannot, based on the issues, support hillary clinton's positions and vote for john mccain. they are the antithesis of one another.

spite and petulance are the only charitable explanations for these 2 dipshits. and clinton herself created and stoked the myth of the stolen primary. she's as much to blame as the stupidity of some of her supporters.

character is an asinine way to select a candidate.

read these 2 sites and see which one's policy positions you most agree with. here's a hint: that's your candidate.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

for those self-congratulatory independent thinkers and moderate voters above, I realize it's so tiresome to actually figure out what kind of laws the 2 candidates want to pass. but that's kind of how an election should work.

and it's not like mccain and obama are so similar on the issues. certainly not similar enough that "character" and "experience" are relevant tie-breakers.

really, screw the whining about crazy leftists, and elitist liberals. and how you voted democrat for the last 40 years, but now the party's just gone too far. those are lazy ad hominem arguments. that many use to excuse themselves of having to doing any thinking. stick to the issues.

so, if you plan to vote against the candidate you're closest to ideologically, you're either an asshole, a moron, intellectually bankrupt, or just plain lazy. and a poor excuse for an american.

contra the last 8 years, being a good american doesn't mean embracing your inner jingo, it means casting an informed ballot.

it ain't glamorous, and it's not a pep rally. but it is the job the constitution assigns to us.

"These women are not thinking logically, or even thinking at all. they are throwing a public temper tantrum like petulant little children that didn't get their way."

The nomination process wasn't a game to see who could win or "get their way". It was a contest to see who best espoused your political ideology and who you thought would best lead the country. When it got down to Senators Clinton and Obama, Senator Clinton was who I thought was the clear candidate for our party who most closely represented the direction I'd like to see the country go in and who would see the war through to the end and not just get out but finish what we had started and win. Again, call us nut cases. We're your most convenient definition so you don't have to use any serious critical thought about how so many of us could turn to McCain. Maybe it's been building in "me" a little longer than others and maybe I am a little more conservative than most. But I was a Democrat still when this political season started and watched the media ram Senator Obama down our throat for whatever reason. WHy did the National Commitee only agree to count Florida and Michigan until after Senator Clinton was forced to pledge her delegates to Senator Obama? What a disingenuous farce that is. We're still wondering how she even lost. For one, clearly Senator Clinton was limited in the manner in which she could conduct her campaign and what she could say because of the ennuendo of racist remarks. I never heard anything close to it from her campaign or Senator McCain. The only racist remarks I've heard have come from men of the clothe that Senator Obama counts amoung his spiritial leaders.

She and Senator McCain have both supported the war and the soldiers and not played games with the funding for the war. The extreme left from our party are so blinded by hatred for Republicans that they would rather lose this war than let a Republican administration win it. I don't care whos in power when we do, I just don't want to see 14 soldiers and officers from my brigade to have died for nothing because we "decided" not to win.

Davidgs you guys can keep throwing the names and insults around, but all it's going to do to make me more secure in the decision I made. I have been a Democrat all of my life. How do you think it makes me feel to know that I've been pushed out of my party and been treated like garbage in the process. Anyway, a person would only throw a tantrum if they thought it was going to get them something. It's obvious the Democratic Party doesn't even want to give us the time of day.

And thanks for jumping in there before I left mencken. I couldn't make up a more perfect two posts to demonstrate exactly what I as talking about. Reaching across that isle huh? You can't even reach across your own party. If you're the face of the new Democratic party, we are surely lost as a nation. Do I see a reeducation camp in my future?

Senator Clinton was who I thought was the clear candidate for our party who most closely represented the direction I'd like to see the country go in and who would see the war through to the end and not just get out but finish what we had started and win.

You've always been a McCain guy. Why not just admit it? That sentence above is clearly just a Republican talking point.

Senator Clinton never promised to "see the war through to the end and win it". McCain promised that. Clinton promised to pull out our troops every bit as much as Obama did.

The Democrats tried to get a timetable for withdrawal of American troops and Republicans, like you, called us traitors and accused us of wanting to lose the war and hating the troops.

Now, of course, the Iraqi government is demanding we leave under a specific timetable, just as both Clinton and Obama supported and Bush and McCain both opposed. And Bush is going to agree to it. He has to. Are we going to continue to occupy Iraq against the wishes of their elected government? And they are demanding that all American troops leave by 2011.

I never called anyone a traitor. Read up. I said I thought I hung with the dissent from the party pretty well for a long time. I;m not trying to characterize what you're saying, please don't things that I haven't said.

"You've always been a McCain guy. Why not just admit it? That sentence above is clearly just a Republican talking point."

I would be willing to bet that I've been a member of the Democratic Party longer than most of you've been alive. But does it make it easier for you to think that? Is that a better explaination? I don't know what a person could do to prove it to you. I'm certainly not going to scan my voter registation card and send it to you. It doesn't matter anyway, you're going to make sure Obama wins no matter what, huh? Purge the party.

You guys have a great election without me.

Just one question. Why is it so hard for some of you to have discussions like this without losing your temper and expressing such violent sounding rhetoric? I can almost hear you yelling as you're typing.

I was just passing by and stopped to read the comments. I am just amazed at the epithets, invective, cursing and insults hurled by the supposedly "progressive" posters on this forum.

Calling someone a "f*cking moron" because they disagree or hold a different opinion than your own and should be "shot" is very closely aligned with fascism.

If this is the "hope and change" Obama is bringing then you can count me out.

Racist white women !

DUH!!!!!!!!!!

I should point out that before George Bush Jr entered the Whitehouse, he hadn't got much experience either, and in fact his previous record was far WORSE than Obama's. He had a sort of anti-midas touch - every business he was involved with went bust or failed in some way. So the attacking Obama on lack of experience really doesn't work.

If you are a Democrat, you'll vote for the democratically elected Democrat party representative. That is Obama this time around. If you vote for McCain, you're not a Democrat. You might have been once, but you aren't any more - it really is that simple.

Democracy is about the will of the people. The majority wins, and whether PUMAs or anyone else hates Obama because he got more votes than Clinton is neither here nor there. They both campaigned, there had to be a winner and a loser, he won, she lost. End of story. You might not like or agree with it, but it WAS democratically done. If you can't stomach that - you're not a Democrat.

Feel free to vote for McCain. Just don't pretend you're a Democrat, because you won't go with the democratic winner.

Hawkster,

You said it well.

As for whether those turning to McCain are "really" Democrats, what exactly do the Obamites hope to prove?

I know of two lifelong registered Republicans who would have switched parties to vote for Hillary. This was not part of a strategy to defeat the Democrats -- they didn't vote in the Democratic primary. They were sick of Bush (for different reason than the far left, admittedly) and felt Hillary would make a strong commander-in-chief. But they certainly don't plan to vote for Obama.

I also know several life-long Democrats who are going to switch parties to vote for McCain.

So Hillary could get Republicans to switch to vote Democrat, but Obama drives Democrats to vote Republican.

And somehow, the Obamites think that pointing this out ("She was really a Republican all along! So there!") speaks well of Obama?

If he really hopes to win a general election, it's the swing voters he has to win, not the Pure Elect Party Faithful who have passed through the many purges to "prove" their loyalty to the Party and Big Brother.

Hmmm. Someone 35 years old who voted for Nixon at age 18? For what office? Richard Nixon resigned the presidency 34 years ago this month.

No wonder Obama supporters are having such a hard time with reality. Their reading comprehension skills are low.

You're own comment has enough information in it to have jogged a normal person to re-read her quote (and revising or killing their own) before posting. It wouldn't have fit the narrative running in your head though.

BTW since your reading skills are so poor, try using the visual skills provided. This is no slam at them, but they don't look 35. More like in their 50's which would jibe with first voting 30 some years ago.

I don't get many hat tips from Mutant Pacifists in my line of work but thanks. :-)

McCain is the right choice, a corrective move towards the middle, and no loss of spine in our executive.

Obama is a Lotto ticket, a complete unknown, with few positive associations to recommend him, and too many negative associations to ignore.

America is not that desperate.

Go McCain!!

I pulled for him in 2000, and this time he's got the nomination. Let's put him in the White House.

McCain is ready to lead.

It is stunning to me how the radical left has taken over the party of JFK, LBJ, Joe Lieberman, et. al. What you critics of these two ladies fail to grasp is that the "new Democrat" party has left these stalwart supporters behind with no one to turn to but the moderate McCain. You have over moon-batted yourselves with the Annointed one. May you fail, again, in November. I bet you'll make the same mistake in 2012.

Wasn't everyone saying during the primaries that Obama's and Clinton's policies were almost identical?

I sincerely and honestly do not understand how someone who supported Clinton's policies (a valid and reasonable position) can discount McCain's pro-life, conservative, hawkish policies and cross the aisle to vote for him. Really? When you put it all on the scale, do Obama's inexperience, celebrity, and whatever else you don't like about him really outweigh McCain's policies that are often COMPLETELY OPPOSED to Clinton's? I'm not saying anyone's a "f*cking moron," but it legitimately seems like an emotional and irrational decision--if you claim to believe in the things Hillary believes in.

Could a non-troll Hillary/McCain supporter field this one please?

What does civility in this forum have anything to do with what policies YOU believe in and who YOU will vote for? I keep seeing the same silly idea that if Obama supporters were nicer to Hillary people we wouldn't be here. What do YOU believe in? If you can square the circle where Hillary and McCain policies intersect in your mind then vote McCain. But please, for the love of god, don't blame Obama or his supporters for your ability to seemingly be on both sides of every issue. How can you possibly have any core beliefs in terms of public policy if you can make that swing from Hillary to McCain.

But don't believe me, listen to Hillary tonight. You're making a HUGE mistake if you supported her and now support McCain. I wonder why she would say that?

Big Douche or Turd Sandwich?

That's the choice we have this year. both are seriously flawed.

I made my choice based upon who I believe will not raise my taxes, take away my guns or try to "change society" in weird and unseemly ways.

George Mcorby: "Obama is the least qualified, most unexperienced and less accomplished major party candidate in History"

Actually, we had a President -- not just a candidate, but a President -- who had *less* experience than Obama when he took office. He was in congress just two years, plus a few years in a state legislature (as Obama had before being in the Senate). No other government experience at all.

I'm speaking, of course, of Abraham Lincoln.

"Could a non-troll Hillary/McCain supporter field this one please?"

I'm a pro-life Democrat. At least Hillary was in support of The Born Alive Infants Protection Act. And you can’t get away from the fact that he out and out lied to the American People from Saddleback Church about why he didn’t support the bill.
She supported the war and the soldiers. And she didn't wait until it was politically necessary to come visit us and she visited the wounded soldiers as well. She doesn't have friends from her past doing magazine articles with pictures showing them standing on the American flag. She’s a patriot and not an academic elitist. Don't pass us off as being irrational because there were no differences. McCain is a closer pick to Clinton than you think when Obama is not even a consideration.

You all you wild-eyed "realists" please tell me which of Obama's positions are so "far left"? Here's a prediction: whatever you come up with --health care for all, leaving Iraq, etc.-- has already been demonstrated by poll after poll to be the will of the American people. How is it "far left" to be smack in the center of public opinion?

The country doesn't want what you're selling. The only way you can elect McCain is to trick the country into thinking Obama won't "protect" them--as if Bush/McCain's bellicose fantasies haven't already put us more at risk.

well on the McMansions side of 50... don't these d kes realize that the Repugs HATE them and their 'lifestyle'?

What's at stake in this election is really the legacy of George W. Bush.

If you think that Bush has done a good job, has generally acted in a way that's consistent with the best American values, and has set a template that future American presidents should follow, you should vote for McCain. Because--whether you intend it or not--that will be the message we send to the world and to history if McCain wins. History only looks at results; a McCain victory validates everything Bush did.

If you're a Democrat--or just simply an American who believes in Constitutionally balanced, competent government and the better traditions of our 232 years as a nation--there isn't any grounds to support McCain, or any Republican this year.

I opposed Clinton in the primaries because, one, I detest the idea of a two-family duopoly on the presidency; and two, I didn't trust her political character--with its biases toward viewing war as good politics in any context, secrecy and "loyalty" as the supreme political virtues, and top-down solutions to every problem in the country--all that much more than I did Bush's. But if she had won the nomination, I likely would have held my nose and supported her simply to repudiate the last eight years of stupid wars, comprehensive politicization of government, torture, and malign neglect of domestic needs.

Anyone who claims to share Hillary Clinton's stated beliefs now needs to get past personality-driven politics and other fleeting considerations and reach the same conclusion. Your country's future is at stake.

“You all you wild-eyed "realists" please tell me which of Obama's positions are so "far left"?”

1. He holds an extreme view of the abortion issue that allowed him to rationalize that in trying to render care to the child, it somehow would deter an organized clinic from also supporting effort to provide care for the mother.

2. He will not commit to any cogent point of view on the war or the troops. But he did vote against a bill that would provide up-armor to HMVS.

3. He refuses to admit the surge has worked.

3. He will not commit to protection of our troops from world courts.

4. He demonstrated his anti-gun views during the recent Supreme Court decision on the DC Gun ban. (Showed his flip-flopping after the trial balloon popped)

5. His association with members of the Weather Underground is the most appalling link with the extreme left I can think of though.

I could go on, but even if these were the only reasons, they would still do it for me.

And once again, what is so hard about discussing the topic here without all the namecalling?

anonymous at 121 was me.

"don't these d kes realize that the Repugs HATE them and their 'lifestyle'?"

I was talking about that very idea earlier on this blog. The only real hate I see is coming out of our party.

If you yell at the people sitting on te fence and call them names, they'll just jump off on the other side.

Can you make a point without calling someone a name? Doesn't your argument stand for itself?

Maybe, just maybe; we don't like Obama... This does not mean we are not demcrats (or were not prior to what he and YOU BOZOs did to US). For anyone who complains about Hillary doing ANY RACE_BAIING: do me and everyone a favor: prove it! Obama and his supporters have accused the Clintons of everything THEY HAVE DONE. Makes ME sick.. and, NO, though I have alays voted the Dem choice since 1976, I will not ever be casting a ballot for Obama. HE has single handedly brought race relations in this country back by decades with his OWN sort of self hatred. The guy simply would suck as president and, so, I will not support him in any way---
BTAW: Yes, PUMA....

A Primary is a Primary is a Primary.

Any political party will field a diverse range of candidates who will then attempt to destroy each other in order to secure nomination. Hopefully people vote on issues during primaries, choosing the best candidate to represent the wide-range issues of the respective party. Dems didn't pick Hillary because, for whatever reason you may or may not support, she didn't fit as well as Obama. Call it image over issues, call it crude or unfair, it is what it is.

Diebold voting machines will not step in on this one and change the result.

Republicans chose John McCain over other candidates just as Democrats chose Obama. It's about finding a candidate that fits a broad ideological spectrum, no single candidate ever fits all of the views of all the people in the party. McCain is too moderate for many NeoCons, so be it. Limbaugh whined about his Conservative cred just like many people are whining about Obama's leftist views.

Shocker of the month: The Democratic Party is LEFTIST. If you examine your beliefs and they aren't majority left, you are voting for the wrong party. Neither Hillary nor Obama would endorse a Roe v. Wade overturn. Neither will lower taxes, universal health care likely requires a raise of them. If you don't want to pay for change, you are voting the wrong way. If you voted in the primaries for Hillary simply because she was Republican-like on certain issues, then you are voting for the wrong party.

Sorry to disappoint you moderates, but that's the way the Democratic party is. Good/Bad, Right/Wrong. It is that way, and unless you take it over it will continue to be that way. If your only tie was one candidate, then you are not ideologically in line with the party majority at this time. Most people in the party do not agree with you. Yell, shout, scream, cry, your voice is a minority, even if it 49% of the voice. Democracy works that way, usually a little under half of the country is not happy at any moment. Ron Paul supporters did not mass-defect just because they lost the free-pot candidate in their party.

Honestly I cannot see why the spinmasters choose to invade a blog post and attempt to create anarchy, it's counter intuitive. People yell and scream and nothing really happens except a lot of butt-hurt and anger. Congratulations to both sides for waging war over text.

Obama is the nominee, if you don't like that, you can join Joe Lieberman and defect to whichever party will have you. As for the rest of us, both Democrats and Republicans, we will take solace in knowing that our votes are cast for the party that best represents our ideals.

If you think your party nominee 'sucks,' then switch parties and vote with ideological schizophrenia. Call yourself a Democrat who is pro life and anti gun control. Say that you voted Republican and Democrat and that gives you the almighty say on all issues politics. Say whatever you want, honestly, because neither party, neither candidate, is listening to you here.

Fear, it certainly does eliminate any logic in one's brain doesn't it?

I am not surprised that a REPUBLICAN hates Obama, but the other woman is just scared out her mind about terrorism. She has more chance of dying from the chemicals in her hair spray than terrorism.

Any Democrat who is upset that Hillary did not win and because of this votes for McCain, were never democrats. There is no comparison between Hillary and McCain.

Fear and racism, I simply do not see any other reason some people are making these threats to vote for McCain.

Do us a favor, stay home

Several recent polls show only about half of Hillary's supporters planning to vote for Obama. At least 3 million plan to vote for McCain. Another 4-6 million will stay home or vote third party. About 10% went from Obama to McCain quite recently; links to cites at my website.

The margin of victory in 2004 was 3 million. If the 3 million who now plan to vote for McCain even so much as stay home, that will tip the GE to McCain.

If all 9 million withhold their votes from Obama, and even 3 million give theirs TO McCain, that's a difference in margin of 12 million votes.

"Fear and racism" are the only reasons someone might pull the lever for McCain?

Seriously? You *honestly* believe that?

The sophomoric level of your cognitive skills (and I use that term very loosely) is simply breathtaking...

Insults aside, the point is how many actual votes the Dems are gaining vs how many they are losing by nominating Obama.

They are losing 9 million of Hillary supporers, and these PUMAs sound very likely to follow through in November.

As to the young voters the Dems may gain, if those actually manage to vote....

"Fox news went out on the streets of Denver last night to interview young Obama supporters. The results were predictable. When asked to name any Obama accomplishments … they couldn’t. One said “Ahhh … the children … well …” Then these kids were asked why they supported Obama in the first place. Well, he’s young, he has a nice voice, he’s handsome and he is a good performer. Remember … as the Fox reporter said, the only vote many of these kids have ever cast was for American Idol."

It may seem odd to some people, but there are those of us who decide issues on their own merits, not according to the check-list compiled by a given party. There is no earthly reason why one's support or opposition for unions, for instance, should have anything to do with one's support or opposition for abortion. There's no reason that one's views on gun control should have an obvious connection to one's views on national health care.

Sometimes, even when one would think there would be a connection between two issues, party positions don't reflect this at all. For instance, given that the Islamofascist ideology of al-Qaeda is violently and viciously anti-gay, anti-woman and anti-choice, one would think that that people who support gay rights, gender equality and the right to choose would be the most intent on defeating the evil ideologies poisoning the Middle East and replacing these with democracies. Instead, we see Nancy Pelosi donning the veil to toady to the most sexist dictators on earth.

So don't tell me that if I wanted to vote for Hillary I now "have" to "logically" vote for Obama. That doesn't follow at all. I didn't agree with everything on Hillary's agenda either, but I considered her position closest to mine on several important issues, including the economy and foreign policy. Obama has provided no proof that he would tackle either competently.

How does a person that claims to be a Democrat having barely survived 7 years of Bush's disastrous policies decide to vote for McCain because Hillary was not chosen to run as POTUS or vetted as VP?

How does a "Democratic" woman choose McCain knowing that he and the Republicans will select the most conservative Justices to the Supreme Court which will effectively render a womans right to govern her body moot?

How do these "Democrats" choose to select McCain knowing that his platform is grossly opposite that of Clinton and Obama?

Real Democrats don't.

This is Operation Chaos, a Republican scheme to hoodwink and bamboozle misguided female (and male) Democrats by placing false ads by pseudo "disenfranchised -
Democrats" in order to cull them from the safety of the Democratic fold.

If they are in fact real Democrats, I sure as hell hope they invest in a plastics factory to supplement thir social security, pensions and pay for their health care - as they aren't spring chickens -becasue we're gonna need a whole bunch of body bags for our young men and women to fight that hundred year war in Iraq.
And dissapointed, temper-tantrum throwing sweethearts, don't think your precious grandchildren are off limits: Bush, Cheny, Rush and O'Reilly were able to get deferments but you can bet your sweet ass that as middle class folks - it's likely that your grandkids are coming home in body bags.

But remember, Hillary and you were dissed - so who gives a damn if your kids and grandkids have to be. After all, it's the pricipal of the damn thing! Right?

Sorry - My anger caused me to type so fast I had a few typos.

But you get the jist of what I was saying.

Flame away! LOL.

Kudos to Michele and her spot-on post.
It's funny: For supposedly "liberal" Web site, there sure are a lot of conservatives complete with Free Republic-sounding talking points, posting here.
I admire Mrs. Clinton and her achievements, but here's a newsflash to the more bitter supporters: YOUR CANDIDATE LOST, FAIR AND SQUARE. DEAL WITH IT.
If you want a bitter, forgetful old man in the White House (who will make sure your son or daughter is shipped off to Iran the first chance he gets), fine.
But don't any of you dare black Barack Obama, "liberal elitists," the media or anyone else.
Instead, be sure to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Pardon the typo: I meant to write, "Don't you dare blame Barack Obama."
My bad -- and no Freudian slip here.
Like Michelle, I was fired up and writing fast.
It just disgusts me that more than a few posters here cannot put their fragile egos -- and far more importantly, the good of our nation -- aside.
Sad, and yet another example of just how twisted and partisan our political debate has become.

No harm - no foul Happygirl.
I'm with you 100%.

It is so hard to listen to all this garbage about Obama's lack of experience yet folks have - dare I say -"elected" Bush twice!

Let's call a duck, a duck. Who in their right mind wants to live another 4 years under this type of government?

We've got a mentally deficient man with no foreign experience in office, the economy is in the toilet, folks have to choose between food,prescriptions, or gas and folks are acting as if it's all been a bed of roses!

Give me a break.

Folks with ISSUES are saying that Obama would not be a good leader because he has no experience at all.

Be that as it may, I hope folks with two brain cells to rub together don't fall for this garbage.

No harm - no foul Happygirl.
I'm with you 100%.

It is so hard to listen to all this garbage about Obama's lack of experience yet folks have - dare I say -"elected" Bush twice!

Let's call a duck, a duck. Who in their right mind wants to live another 4 years under this type of government?

We've got a mentally deficient man with no foreign experience in office, the economy is in the toilet, folks have to choose between food,prescriptions, or gas and folks are acting as if it's all been a bed of roses!

Give me a break.

Folks with ISSUES are saying that Obama would not be a good leader because he has no experience at all.

Be that as it may, I hope folks with two brain cells to rub together don't fall for this garbage.

Thanks again for weighing in, Michelle. Appreciate your thoughtful, strong responses to the myriad of right-wing trolls on this forum.
Apparently, they don't mind seeing this nation go to hell in a handbasket.
Just so long as dupes like these two women featured are "safe."
(Pssst, Karen and Bonnie: McCain won't do a damn thing to protect you, other than send your love ones into another quagmire.)
I'm just glad there are still free-thinking Americans like Michelle out there, who are focused on what really matters.
Let's just hope that enough of them show up to the polls this November.

And one thing about Bonnie and Karen --
I'd love to ask these two a question: You do realize that by voting for McCain, you support a party that hates and marginalizes you, don't you?
(To all who can't figure out exactly what I mean by this question, take a moment to think about it.)

Brilliant, Happygirl.

I wonder how many folks are scratching their heads at what you just said.

"Uh Honey, do you think she's saying what I think she's saying..nah, couldn't be, this is a conservative site and by golly they would not tolerate that stuff...or would they if it pushes our agenda? Well damn it, let me see what Rush tells me I should think.. damn, I hope he's not taking them dag gone drugs tonight!"

you just confused them all - lol

you just confused them all - lol

"You support a party that hates and marginalizes you, don't you?"

The Democratic Party? Yes, many posters both here and elsewhere have been making that clear. Thanks.

Oh -- maybe you, like the other poster were implying the women were lesbians. Actually, I doubt it. But why would any sane gay person support a candidate who makes moral equivalency between Iran, which executes homosexuals, and the United States, which merely argues about the legality of gay marriage?

I honestly don't understand anybody who is repulsed by Republican ideology but wants to sing Kum-Ba-Ya with Ahmandinijad. There is such a thing as a lesser evil. McCain is better than Obama for the same reason that Churchhill was better than Chamberlain. Not because of the evil of Chamberlain but because of the evil of Hitler than Chamberlain refused to acknowledge.

But I suppose being concerned about human rights in other countries besides just our own makes me a "right wing troll!"

Chamberlain came to office with almost no understanding of foreign affairs or experience in dealing with international leaders.

Nonetheless, like Bush does wih Iran, he was convinced that he alone could bring Hitler and Benito Mussolini to heel.

He surrounded himself with like-minded advisers and refused to heed anyone who told him otherwise.

In the months leading up to World War II, Chamberlain and his men saw little need to build up a strong coalition of European allies with which to confront Nazi Germany -- ignoring appeals from Churchill and others to fashion a "Grand Alliance" of nations to thwart the threat that Hitler posed to the continent.

Unlike Bush and Chamberlain, Churchill was never in favor of his country going it alone. Throughout the 1930s, while urging Britain to rearm, he also strongly supported using the newborn League of Nations -- the forerunner to today's United Nations -- to provide one-for-all-and-all-for-one security to smaller countries.

After the League failed to stop fascism's march, Churchill was adamant that, to beat Hitler, Britain must form a true partnership with France and even reach agreement with the despised Soviet Union, neither of which Chamberlain was willing to do.

Like Bush, Chamberlain also laid claim to unprecedented executive authority, evading the checks and balances that are supposed to constrain the office of prime minister. He scorned dissenting views, both inside and outside government. When Chamberlain arranged his face-to-face meetings with Hitler in 1938 that ended in the catastrophic Munich conference, he did so without consulting his cabinet, which, under the British system, is responsible for making policy. He also bypassed the House of Commons, leading Harold Macmillan, a future Tory prime minister who was then an anti-appeasement MP, to complain that Chamberlain was treating Parliament "like a Reichstag, to meet only to hear the orations and to register the decrees of the government of the day

I donno who you interviewed, but I am a SEVERE LIBERAL! I can not and will not EVER vote for Obama, no matter if Hillary speacks every day from no until election day!
I'm a 30 year old working-class white woman in a minority city of Long Island. What's that mean? It means my best friends are blacks and latinos, it means I understand and am accepted by their cultures, it means we all love Hillary and do not trust Obama. Obama is NEVER going to be POTUS....deal with it.

I donno who you interviewed, but I am a SEVERE LIBERAL! I can not and will not EVER vote for Obama, no matter if Hillary speacks every day from no until election day!
I'm a 30 year old working-class white woman in a minority city of Long Island. What's that mean? It means my best friends are blacks and latinos, it means I understand and am accepted by their cultures, it means we all love Hillary and do not trust Obama. Obama is NEVER going to be POTUS....deal with it.

Churchill may have wanted an alliance (and eventually helped forge it), but he was still willing to go it alone when the US, in one of its shameful isolationist stages, refused to come to Britain's aid during the Blitz. He didn't say, "Well, since the League isn't defending us, we might as well surrender," he said, "We will fight them on the beaches," etc.

I, too, prefer that we work together with other democratic nations to defeat the ideology of Islamism. But democracies are particularly prone to naivety and isolationism, and don't always come together even when mutual self-interest suggests they should. Those are the times that a nation -- and its leader -- must be prepared to do what is RIGHT not just what is POPULAR.

As for being a troll, I'm from Denver, not Colorado Springs! I am 53 years old -subtract 35 years and that puts me at 18 you bozos when I voted for Nixon! Amazing how nasty so many Democrats have become and how self righteous and cocky people have become. What's the problem with not taking my comments at face value. You can't imagine a Democrat voting for John McCain? The Democrats for Hillary at the DNC have been like the Apostles for Christ in hiding. We two, brave souls, walked the streets of Denver wearing our "Hillary campaign gear" and all you nasty Democrats looked at us as if we were racist! I managed to convince Karen to vote for Hillary because she was Presidential. Last night, her speech convinced me of that once again. Hillary Clinton is Presidential - is inspiring and is a LEADER. Barack Obama is not a LEADER! You can't take the truth so you insist on name calling and that does nothing but continue to reinforce my beliefs that Hillary will make a come back! If Hillary did anything tonight, she may have convinced me to abstain from voting! Barack Obama has not yet convinced me that he is ready to lead...that's his challenge before November! For those of you who have nothing good to say about people - keep your fingers off the keyboard.

This is the first time I had an opportunity to read the most interesting comments people made about my comments. Everyone has the right to speak their mind. Just because I am from Colorado Springs does that make me a “troll”? I am an American citizen residing in Colorado Springs, CO. I was born in New Haven, Connecticut and get this bloggers, at the same hospital where George W. Bush was born. (Don’t feel sorry for me)

I feel strongly about my decision in the candidate for whom I wish to vote. I was taken back though with the hostility that was thrown at me. You want Unity and instead of embracing it, you accused of harboring hostility and anger and yet, it is you who are angry. I am not here to portray anger. I am sad though that the candidate who should be on the Democratic Ticket is not there in any capacity. Hillary’s speech to the convention on Tuesday Night only showed me again, this is the Candidate who should be President. The Democratic Party has it wrong this time and I believe they will lose in the end. The Media bias and Oprah lead to Obama’s candidacy. Think about it, do you want a product made or a product earned? John McCain will have my vote this time around. “MAC HAS MY BACK” and yes folk, security is why I am voting for Senator McCain. I believe Hillary would have had my back also but she is not there on the ticket. Evil exists and as John McCain said, “we’ll defeat it”!! Obama wants to confront it or sit down for coffee with it.

Posted by: Bonnie Tierney | August 27, 2008 5:27 AM

Bonnie, very well stated! But please reconsider not voting, the reason I say this is by you not voting it's (IMHO) like a vote for Obama, much like when a vote for Perot actually equated to a vote for Clinton in 1994.

Posted by: Karen McKinnon Brown | August 27, 2008 8:32 AM

Also very well stated and I completely agree and am glad you will vote for McCain.

In this times of dangerous and belligerent rogue nations (Iran et al) we need someone that will not hesitate to do what needs to be done to protect the US and its people, what we don't need is someone that will just "talk over tea" with the likes of Im-a-mad-dinner-jacket, a vile and despicable despot that continually calls for Israel's destruction, is a holocaust denier, and encourages its people to chant "death to America" after Friday prayers! You cannot talk or negotiate with people whose radical religious/political ideology is predicated on the return of a missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under their strict and warped sharia caliphate! They (the mad Mullahs) want an apocalypse to bring back their missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under a sharia caliphate…yet Obama fails to see how Iran poses a threat, that alone tells me he’s not ready to lead and would place our nation and its people at risk to the very grave threats we face from such a radical ideology. This is not “fear mongering” as many on the far left like to say, it is a fact and for our own survival we need someone that recognizes this fact and will not hesitate to act if need be.

Clinton was a better choice for sure and even though I vote republican I would vote for Clinton before I would even consider voting for Obama...Obama is not ready to lead…Obama is a media image, an empty suit…period!

Posted by: Bonnie Tierney | August 27, 2008 5:27 AM

Bonnie, very well stated! But please reconsider not voting, the reason I say this is by you not voting it's (IMHO) like a vote for Obama, much like when a vote for Perot actually equated to a vote for Clinton in 1994.

Posted by: Karen McKinnon Brown | August 27, 2008 8:32 AM

Also very well stated and I completely agree and am glad you will vote for McCain.

In this times of dangerous and belligerent rogue nations (Iran et al) we need someone that will not hesitate to do what needs to be done to protect the US and its people, what we don't need is someone that will just "talk over tea" with the likes of Im-a-mad-dinner-jacket, a vile and despicable despot that continually calls for Israel's destruction, is a holocaust denier, and encourages its people to chant "death to America" after Friday prayers! You cannot talk or negotiate with people whose radical religious/political ideology is predicated on the return of a missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under their strict and warped sharia caliphate! They (the mad Mullahs) want an apocalypse to bring back their missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under a sharia caliphate…yet Obama fails to see how Iran poses a threat, that alone tells me he’s not ready to lead and would place our nation and its people at risk to the very grave threats we face from such a radical ideology. This is not “fear mongering” as many on the far left like to say, it is a fact and for our own survival we need someone that recognizes this fact and will not hesitate to act if need be.

Clinton was a better choice for sure and even though I vote republican I would vote for Clinton before I would even consider voting for Obama...Obama is not ready to lead…Obama is a media image, an empty suit…period!

Posted by: Bonnie Tierney | August 27, 2008 5:27 AM

Bonnie, very well stated! But please reconsider not voting, the reason I say this is by you not voting it's (IMHO) like a vote for Obama, much like when a vote for Perot actually equated to a vote for Clinton in 1994.

Posted by: Karen McKinnon Brown | August 27, 2008 8:32 AM

Also very well stated and I completely agree and am glad you will vote for McCain.

In this times of dangerous and belligerent rogue nations (Iran et al) we need someone that will not hesitate to do what needs to be done to protect the US and its people, what we don't need is someone that will just "talk over tea" with the likes of Im-a-mad-dinner-jacket, a vile and despicable despot that continually calls for Israel's destruction, is a holocaust denier, and encourages its people to chant "death to America" after Friday prayers! You cannot talk or negotiate with people whose radical religious/political ideology is predicated on the return of a missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under their strict and warped sharia caliphate! They (the mad Mullahs) want an apocalypse to bring back their missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under a sharia caliphate…yet Obama fails to see how Iran poses a threat, that alone tells me he’s not ready to lead and would place our nation and its people at risk to the very grave threats we face from such a radical ideology. This is not “fear mongering” as many on the far left like to say, it is a fact and for our own survival we need someone that recognizes this fact and will not hesitate to act if need be.

Clinton was a better choice for sure and even though I vote republican I would vote for Clinton before I would even consider voting for Obama...Obama is not ready to lead…Obama is a media image, an empty suit…period!

I know more than most that Iran is a threat to the United States! I spent 19 years on active duty both serving as an enlisted member and an officer. While "Caesar Obama" is building his temple at Invesco field, I sit in awe of his arrogance and it is this exact type of arrogance that made me despise George Bush and his "go it alone policies." I witnessed terrorism first hand during the first terrorist bombing of the Marine Barracks that killed 241 soldiers nearly 25 years ago. Iran was behind this horrific attack. I know we need to be weary of them. Karen was right - Obama wants to sit down and have "high tea" with terrorists and that is the difference between he and McCain. We must "defeat" evil never "confront" it. Locked In Time. I have every right to stand behind a candidate of my choice and it is definitely not going to be OBAMA. If Senator McCain is smart enough to choose Condi Rice as his VP and she accepts...you can bet I'll change my mind and vote for McCain!

Posted by: Bonnie Tierney | August 27, 2008 5:27 AM

Bonnie, very well stated! But please reconsider not voting, the reason I say this is by you not voting it's (IMHO) like a vote for Obama, much like when a vote for Perot actually equated to a vote for Clinton in 1994.

Posted by: Karen McKinnon Brown | August 27, 2008 8:32 AM

Also very well stated and I completely agree and am glad you will vote for McCain.

In this times of dangerous and belligerent rogue nations (Iran et al) we need someone that will not hesitate to do what needs to be done to protect the US and its people, what we don't need is someone that will just "talk over tea" with the likes of Im-a-mad-dinner-jacket, a vile and despicable despot that continually calls for Israel's destruction, is a holocaust denier, and encourages its people to chant "death to America" after Friday prayers! You cannot talk or negotiate with people whose radical religious/political ideology is predicated on the return of a missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under their strict and warped sharia caliphate! They (the mad Mullahs) want an apocalypse to bring back their missing Imam and a return to a world ruled under a sharia caliphate…yet Obama fails to see how Iran poses a threat, that alone tells me he’s not ready to lead and would place our nation and its people at risk to the very grave threats we face from such a radical ideology. This is not “fear mongering” as many on the far left like to say, it is a fact and for our own survival we need someone that recognizes this fact and will not hesitate to act if need be.

Clinton was a better choice for sure and even though I vote republican I would vote for Clinton before I would even consider voting for Obama...Obama is not ready to lead…Obama is a media image, an empty suit…period!

First I want to apoligize for the multiple posts, for whatever reason my original post wasn't showing so I posted it several more times, not sure what happened there.

Secondly I want to thank Bonnie for her service to our great nation and the sacrifices she has made so freedom loving Americans like me can continue to live free as is evident by my being able to express myself freely on this thread!

I read your story Bonnie, very touching and I am so glad you have been able to heal although the scars run deep.

My father served in the military for 27 years, he joined the Army Aircorps and then went into the airforce when they separated, so while I have never served I have a good idea of the sacrifices those that serve make.

Thanks again Bonnie!

I just want to express the point made up above. Obama is an empty suit; plain and simple. He pledges change as if he thinks himself as the next JFK. And another person above spoke that it's good that he has little experience in Washington. Well, isn't that part of the entire idea of politics; the fact that you have experience to become the leader of the country for four years. It's a very commited job and you need to understand Washington inside out. Otherwise, you being president means nothing - what is the point of a veto power if you cannot use it effectively? At this point, he is winning more on charisma than issues. He walks on the podium as if he is already the President of the United States of America. He is not, simple and short. And his wife saying that she can now be proud of America. You should already be proud of America if you live here. The land of the free is here, ladies and gentlemen, plain and simple. Opportunities are everywhere. Patrioticism is important, no president has every been questioned for not honoring America for what it is and supporting it; he has. If Obama is anything like JFK, he is a man of charisma, not policy.

RIPE FOR THE PICKING!

Last night while standing outside the MSNBC studios, waiting to hear what Barack Obama would tell the world, so many thoughts ran through my head. I thought to myself, my dream of realizing a woman President is possible in the United States of America had just been taken away and Hillary Clinton surrendered defeat on the day women earned the right to vote with the passing of the 19th amendment 88 years ago, August 26th. I thought about how the DNC had pulled on my heart strings and I was angry.

Then comes Al Gore, to give a heartfelt endorsement for Barack Obama. Still nothing was going to move me -- move mountains he said - then told us to move mountains! As I repeated the phrase, "Mountain move" over and over again, I thought about Senator Clinton and how she moved mountains, how much she inspired me and with every ounce of my breath, I kept realizing the only one I wanted to move mountains for America was Senator Clinton. Then I began thinking about her speech and how she asked us to turn our support to Barack Obama. How can I do this I thought? He has spoken with no substance for the entire campaign and I can't just offer my support to another politician with empty promises.

I convinced myself that I needed substance - I needed to hear from Barack Obama what he would do to get us out of this economic crisis, what he would do to restore diplomacy in our country, what he would do for the working class in our country and most of all, what he would do for our veterans, especially those who are homeless and helpless because of the failed Bush policies. I convinced myself that I would stand with an open mind and open heart and toss away my internal anger over Senator Clinton not being selected as the Presidential nominee for our country, let alone being selected as Barack Obama's VP running mate. I have always said that his not selecting Senator Clinton would be his biggest mistake of his campaign along with not visiting our wounded warriors while in Europe.

Suddenly, I'm standing next to two Republicans and Chris Matthews decides to come down off the set to interview them. He wanted to understand why people would vote Republican and one of the women he interviewed was a die-hard Hillary Clinton fan. She was wearing one of Senator Clinton's pins. Prior to the interview, I had been talking to the Hillary Clinton supporter and she was indicating that the way the caucuses were controlled was her greatest disappointment. She spoke of unfair practices during the campaign and indicated that the only reason Senator Obama won was because his supporters were unethical in the way they handled the process. I said, "say that on national television." She looked concerned and I said, "are you a PUMA" to which she responded, "no, I am not that radical." "If you believe that the process was flawed, then you must say that on national television," I said.

They completed the interview and as Chris Matthews moved down the line, looking for other Republicans in the crowd, I couldn't help listen to the one true "Republican" gentleman who turned to me and said, "Senator McCain will release the name of his VP select an hour before the news media gets it, then will pass it to the Press. It may very well be, Governor Palin from Alaska or Kay Bailey Hutchinson." Much to my surprise, I said, "Who is Governor Palin?" He replied, "the Governor from Alaska." He followed by saying, "it's the right choice because Hillary Clinton supporters are 'ripe for the picking.'"

Ripe for the Picking! Who am I? Am I an apple on a tree? A pepper on a plant? A peanut in the ground? Ripe for the picking! I knew now that I must keep an open mind and listen to the party that I have supported for nearly 35 years, voting for only 1 Republican ~ and that was my first vote so I'm allowed to make one mistake.

Ripe for the Picking! This morning, I just heard the announcement that John McCain has picked Governor Palin, a female Governor from Alaska to be his running mate. A Pro-Life supporter, mother of 5 with one newborn child who has Downs Syndrome and another going off to Iraq on September 11th, serving in the Army. You did it right, John McCain. You showed you're a Maverick -- but I am "NOT RIPE FOR THE PICKING" - NOT NOW, NOT EVER, NO WAY.

After listening to Barack Obama set forth at least 29 specifics last night and being so moved, not by his orator skills but my his simple message - I have decided to cast my vote for Barack Obama in November. I am not a faucet to be turned on and off -- my heart strings pulled one way then another -- and most especially, I am NOT RIPE FOR THE PICKING OF REPUBLICAN party that has become so desperate to win!

I would have loved nothing more than to have Barack Obama select Hillary Clinton for his VP because GOD knows, she deserved it and she is a leader among all leaders -- but I will not support 4 more years of failed politics of the Bush Administration. As Barack Obama stated - I'm not willing to bet 10% on change by voting for John McCain.

Ripe for the Picking -- I may have grown tomatoes on a farm in rural South Windsor, Connecticut as a young child and through my high school years -- but the one thing I know for sure ~ I am NOT RIPE FOR THE PICKING...for anyone and while I want change for our country and I would love to see a woman on the ticket, I am going to set aside my disappointment and I am going to do what is best for our country and vote for Senator Obama. I would encourage anyone who supports the Democratic Party and the message they have to send, despite the inefficiencies that occurred during the election, to cast a vote for Senator Obama. We need change ~ desperately in our country and the time is NOW.

With a Heart of Love,

Bonnie Tierney
Author & Veteran
Locked In Time

PS. Ezra...you might be smiling now!

As I stood this morning at work looking at the TV and watching John McCain introduce his Vice President, thoughts, tears and emotions took me to the extreme. Was I upset that McCain had the guts to choose a woman? Was I upset it wasn't Hillary on the ticket? Was I angry that Obama thought nothing of Hillary and choose another man for his VP? Is it Michelle Obama, the one who is finally proud to be an American, the guardian of Barrack's voice and harbored such disdain of Hillary from the beginning? Is Obama that afraid of Hillary? Or is Obama that afraid of his wife??? Or Both ???
John McCain, gosh, what a statesman, what a maverick you are !! GREAT CHOICE for your/our Vice President. MAC HAS MY BACK. When I listened to a dear friend of mine discuss the events of the first terrorist attack which took place after the Beirut Bombing in October of 1983, I saw her pain. Her job of putting the bodies back together to send them home one last time, won't die in vain under the Presidency of John McCain. Senator Obama doesn't understand, Senator McCain does. I see the soldier, John McCain who now holds the wisdom of his years and the truth about Terrorism, protect us from it all. My friend Bonnie Tierney, the one who gently and honorably placed your loved ones back together from the Beirut Bombing, said America was asleep 25 years ago and She still sleeps to this day. John McCain picks up the Flag and takes charge. I cannot see Senator Obama doing this. This man took 19 months to finally get a voice. Senator McCain, as President McCain will do this for us, he will do this for you Bonnie. Maybe then, the fallen Marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen of Beirut will stop haunting your dreams and you may live the rest of your life in peace my friend. From one soldier to another, Senator McCain won't leave you behind dear friend, "Trust in McCain."

Karen McKinnon Brown
A Hillary Supporter now voting for McCain

"I am going to set aside my disappointment and I am going to do what is best for our country and vote for Senator Obama. I would encourage anyone who supports the Democratic Party and the message they have to send, despite the inefficiencies that occurred during the election, to cast a vote for Senator Obama."

Bonnie, I have a lot of respect for the things you’ve written because you and your friend honestly seemed to me to be trying thoughtfully to decide. I mean, you weren’t just die-hard tied to the party pick.

I was like you teetering a couple weeks ago a lot of things finally pushed me over the top, and as I posted, to change my political affiliation to Independent. A lot of it was the tenor of the discourse coming from our party. This week since Senator McCain picked Governor Palin, it’s only gotten worse; so much ugly criticism.

Some of the sharper comments I’ve gotten posting here, were folks saying that they didn’t think I really was a Democrat. There might be something to that. I have been working with a Republican campaign center here near where I’m stationed after duty hour since I’ve switched. I do find that things are more comfortable with these folks than what I what I expected. We all need to follow our hearts though. I’m glad you found your decision point too. I think you were like me. You have core things you want to see come out of your party. I went forever thinking that our party might soften it’s stance on abortion, but it’s too firmly engrained to even make a mild concession on. And frankly, I felt like with most of my liberal friends in the party, they only tolerate your opinion on the subject being a man if you’re pro-choice. But this feels right.

Happy Campaigning!

jl

:-)

To quote me: "I am going to set aside my disappointment and I am going to do what is best for our country and vote for Senator Obama. I would encourage anyone who supports the Democratic Party and the message they have to send, despite the inefficiencies that occurred during the election, to cast a vote for Senator Obama."

Hawkster: I must have been drinking the Obama Kool-aide. I got caught in party politics and so, I made emotional remarks on the night Senator Obama gave his speech. It was a tremendous oratory display no doubt about it, but when I thought about how long in the campaign it took him to reach some substance, I can't fully believe him or trust him to be my President.

When the truth comes down to it, I have flip-flopped on my decision to vote, but I can't honestly vote for a man who has not earned that desk in the oval office.

Like you, when Senator McCain picked Palin on his ticket that threw the biggest curve ball at me.

As I carefully listened during the Republican convention to everyone's remarks, I know real "Change is on it's way" to Washington if we choose a McCain-Palin ticket.

Governor Palin is feisty, has character and is an outsider to Washington and quite frankly, Senator McCain did what Senator Obama couldn't and should have -- that is put a woman on his ticket.

I've always said that not choosing Hillary Clinton would be Senator Obama's political loss in this race and sure enough, it will.

I'm not voting for Senator Obama any longer and it's not because of Sarah Palin singly. It's because when I put everything together, Senator McCain is the man for these difficult times. Senator Obama will offer much in the future for our country given time --but not now, not this time - at least not with me.

Yes, I've struggled to come up with my choice over these last few months but I am not voting Party Politics - I do put country first, I always have and always will. Maybe I should consider becoming an independent because we don't need more of the same party politics as usual and that's why I think this shake-up in Washington with a McCain-Palin ticket will be good. You can be absolutely sure that this is my final vote. Come November, McCain-Palin have truly earned my vote.

Lastly, I was at the McCain-Palin Rally yesterday in Colorado Springs where I proudly held a sign that contained the words, "Democrats 4 McCain" and I was welcomed with open arms by the Republicans and Democrats, not like in Denver where nasty Democrats cursed my friend and I for originally supporting McCain because Senator Obama didn't have the good judgment to select Hillary Clinton as his VP. Those same Democrats jeered, ran into me with their skateboards while claiming to be a united party. Party Unity My Ass...the PUMAS had it right. The Democratic party and the media treated Hillary Clinton as poorly as anyone I have ever seen and although I have gotten over being upset about it, it just displays the type of party I do not want to be affiliated with.

So my friends, vote McCain-Palin if you have any common sense about you - do not vote just party politics this time. Our country needs you to stand up and "PUT HER FIRST."

Bonnie Tierney
Author & Veteran

Good for you Bonnie. I hope you're able to stay happy with your decision like me.

I'm still very happy with my switch. I've been TDY to Georgia for two weeks. I'm anxious to how the campaigning is going here since I've been gone.

:-)

I too am a Tennesseean and can attest to the fact that Gov. Bredesen holds working people in contempt. Whether it is gutting TennCare or shredding the safety net or workers compensation, this man is a cheerleader for big insurance and big medicine.

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