In fact, there is a biblical mandate for Christians to pray at they're own time.

"Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you." - Mathew 6:5-6

On the other hand, from a practical (non-constitutional) viewpoint, a moment of silence isn't going to play out as "religion." I went to a Quaker school where we had an explicitly religious hour of silence every Friday, and as I dimly recall it was mostly for thinking about all the awesome things you were going to do during the weekend.

This is unconstitutional and will be thrown out by the courts after Illinois spends millions of taxpayer dollars to defend it. The Repukes and the Religious Reich are idiots who want to spend your tax dollars on these stupid red herring issues.

Never mind nonreligious kids being ostracized. In some settings it seems more than possible the nonreligious kids would put down the religious ones.

I had the exact same experience in middle school and high school basketball. There was always the zealous Christian guy everyone liked, so when he said its time to pray, we prayed. Even back then I was completely nonreligious, and felt uncomfortable participating, but its high school, so you join in. I can imagine how other kids will feel in Illinois.

BTW, what the hell is up with praying in sports?

*Because* I'm a spiritual person and *because* I was raised in the church, I'm very much opposed to public prayer, but having kids just be quiet for a minute everyday has got to do some good if only because it gives the teachers a moment of peace. As long as no one tells the students it's a time reserved for prayer, I don't have a problem with it. We have bigger fish to fry in our educational system and the nation as a whole.

As far as I can tell it's simply not true that "they are requiring religious observation (even if it's the religion of your choosing) in schools." A moment of silence can be for prayer, reflection, meditation, or simply respect for the needs of other students. There's no reason an atheist student couldn't spend the time contemplating the elegance of a godless universe with no univeral morality and no free will (which is probably what I would be doing). I'm vehemently opposed to all forms of enforced prayer in schools, including the "under god" component of the pledge, but this strikes me as a perfect balance between the needs of students who want to pray and the rights of students who don't want to.

Schools certainly have an obligation to refrain from requiring prayer, or from sponsoring prayer, but they also have an obligation to make accomodations for the religious needs of students. Kids can take religious holidays, wear religious clothing, and pray when they need to pray. Providing a few minutes for students to take care of any personal spiritual needs seems consistent with the spirit of accomodating the needs of students. By making it explicitly clear that this is not officially a moment for prayer, and by making it silent so students can't hear and be pressured by the content of other kids' moment of silence, the people who don't want to pray are protected from pressure to pray.

Making the moment of silence mandatory does make me a little queasy, but I think overall it will be _better_ for the non-religious. With a piece of the day carved out in a legitimate way to make room for private religious observance, the pro-prayer-in-school people will feel less need to try to foist inappropriate, oppressive prayer regimes on schools. Having it mandated state-wide makes it all the more official, and thus that much more of a buffer between the pro-prayer people and the separation of church and state people. Liberals should be embracing this law as the elegant compromise it is, both because I really do think it's an elegant compromise, and as a show of good faith to the right wingers who claim that the liberal agenda is to ban the practice of religion in public altogether.

New Jersey had this mandated moment of silence back in the mid-80's. I believe that it was ruled unconstitional. I do say that those who support mandatory school prayer (or "moments of silence") have rarely actually seen mandatory prayer in action. My classmates and I were extraodinarily creative in figuring out ways not to have to go into the morning services at my Jewish day school.

"I do say that those who support mandatory school prayer (or "moments of silence") have rarely actually seen mandatory prayer in action."

Agreed. I don't object to this on First Amendment grounds, but because it's largely going to be a waste of time, I suspect. The object is clearly to allow time for (and possibly encourage) prayer. It's been a while since I was a student, but as I recall, as a group they tend not to be hugely or overtly devout. I would guess that, depending on age group, the majority of students will spend the "moment of silence" spitballing, writing notes to boyfriends/girlfriends, or cramming for next period's algebra test.

I doubt this is unconstitutional, and as an atheist who survived nine years of public school (and thus 1,600 moments of silence), this doesn't strike me as a Bad Thing. Maybe (as Atrios suggested) dumb, but ... your classmates can't tell on sight if you're praying, mentally undressing Mrs. Cooper, or silently cursing God. There are lots of ways schools ostracize nonconforming students, but I don't think this is one.

The pledge, on the other hand ... I don't think it offends free society to force kids to sit down, be quiet, and think for a minute each day, but I'm not so hot on group loyalty oaths. Mandatory or no, the pledge is quite the little morning exercise in fascism.

Nate

So what happens if teachers refuse to ask their classes to do this? Are they fired? I would have a hard time complying with this law, not necessarily because it mandates religious practice (though that's part of it) but because it mandates conformity, and because it leaves no room for discussion of what religion is or how it's used in society. I think we should mandate daily readings of Emily Dickinson's "Tell All The Truth," or, on Fridays, William Carlos Williams's "The Red Wheel Barrow."

Providing a few minutes for students to take care of any personal spiritual needs seems consistent with the spirit of accomodating the needs of students.

Is there any reason those kids can't get up five minutes earlier and do that at home? (Well, except the Muslims, who have particular prayer times...ironically, they're the ones with the best claim on this -- oh, but it's a moment of silence, so that probably doesn't do it for them.)

"New Jersey had this mandated moment of silence back in the mid-80's. I believe that it was ruled unconstitional. I do say that those who support mandatory school prayer (or "moments of silence") have rarely actually seen mandatory prayer in action. My classmates and I were extraodinarily creative in figuring out ways not to have to go into the morning services at my Jewish day school.

Posted by: Angry Voter | October 12, 2007 1:39 PM"

Well, if they said it was mandatory, I think they must have totally jerked your chain because I certainly never saw it!