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LICENSES AND PRIVILEGE.
Several things from last night's debate stood out for me. One, I agree with Ezra that Hillary Clinton's answer on driver's licenses was on the right track, though she did try to tiptoe around directly supporting Elliot Spitzer's plan in New York. While others have criticized it, I think she gave a decent response to what was posed as a "gotcha" question. It would be hard – catastrophic even – for Clinton to come right out and say that she wants all illegal immigrants to have drivers' licenses. Her "It makes a lot of sense" response helped spin it to a way to point out the gross failures of immigration reform and the burden it puts on states and municipalities to deal with some very real problems. One of them is the drivers' license issue. She was right on target in pointing out the safety and identification concerns related to having millions of unlicensed drivers on the road, drivers who aren't familiar with driving laws here, who are afraid of the police, who are often unregistered and uninsured because they can't be without a license, and who lack basic identification to make it possible for police to prosecute them if/when they commit traffic offenses. Anyone who has lived in an area with a high volume of immigrants is familiar with these concerns, and it does "make a lot of sense" to try to come up with ways to address them in the absence of a federal plan.
Of course, Dodd's answer that a drivers' license "is a privilege" will appeal to many, as everyone expects there to be things that are available to citizens of the United States that aren't available to everyone else. But the problem is, regardless of who has that "privilege," people who are here illegally will be on the roads. Spitzer, and Clinton, are attempting to address that reality, at least until federal action fills the void. It's a pragmatic move, not ideological.
The other stand out last night was how poorly Richardson came off. His answers were bumbling and long-winded. It seems that he's trying to position himself for a vice-presidential spot at this point in the campaign, and if that's what he's going for, he should probably try to cut down on the rambling at these debates. He was also doing some serious sucking up to Clinton last night. "You know what I'm hearing here, I'm hearing this holier-than-thou attitude toward Senator Clinton," Richardson said at one point. "That is bothering me because it's pretty close to personal attacks that we don't need." He also urged everyone to "save the ammunition for the Republicans."
--Kate Sheppard
COMMENTS (7)
Her "It makes a lot of sense" response helped spin it to a way to point out the gross failures of immigration reform and the burden it puts on states and municipalities to deal with some very real problems.
THANK you. Of course that's what she was doing. That's the approach she takes quite often, responding to a question on a sticky issue to which there's no good solution by pointing out that the sticky issue exists only because the system that generates it is all fouled up to begin with.
The ability to grasp that not all problems can be solved on the level of the problem is crucially important for a president. It's just infuriating to me that those who are able to see and articulate problems in more than one dimension are derided as "flip-floppers" who "waffle" on complicated questions.
Posted by: Swift Loris | October 31, 2007 2:10 PM
Ok Ms. Sheppard and Swift Loris, how about this question?
Mrs. Clinton would you as President sign or veto a bill that prohibited any federal welfare monies from going to any state or local welfare agency that refused to verify that those seeking welfare benefits are in the country legally?
What do you think her answer would be to that question?
Posted by: Chicounsel | October 31, 2007 2:53 PM
I'm all for driver's licenses for the illegals if that'll stop them from driving drunk in such high numbers.
Posted by: Phippsie | October 31, 2007 10:43 PM
Will al Qaeda members in the USA get their own cards under the Clinton/Spitzer plan ?
What about Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah ?
For that matter will there be vanity cards for Sandinistas, Black Panthers, Tupamaros, Basque separatists, Viet Minh, Bosnians, Bohemians, Nihilists, Tamil Tigers, Moors, Ulster Unionists, Nazis, neo-Nazis, Dominionists, Communists, Boxers, Janjaweed, Fedayeen, Underground Railroaders, Vegans, Dead Heads, and Earth First-ers ?
Since the comprehensive dhimmifacation package hasn't been passed by the Congress, the states must step in and take up the matter on their own.
Posted by: Neo | November 2, 2007 12:54 AM
Gee Kate and Ezra...what you apparently missed was that the other folks on stage really went off about was not so much the issuing of driver's licenses as her backtracking on whether she would agree with it or not.
(all the below is paraphrased)
Q: Do you agree/support the governor's plan to issue driver's licenses to illegals? You told some publication it made a lot of sense.
A: What Spitzer is trying to do...etc.
Dodd pipes in about it being a privilege...
Russert starts quaking...
Hillary breaks in with *I didn't say I approve* (paraphrased)
At this point is when the poo hit the fan...everyone leaped in with the WAIT A MINUTE, YOU JUST SAID YOU DID APPROVE...she flat out lies and says no I didn't Chris (to Dodd)...
And on and on it went with her digging in deeper and deeper trying to equivocate.
Had she left it at the original explanation of what Spitzer is trying to do, she would have come out completely unscathed outside of the far right.
But she couldn't resist the urge to cover all bases. She made her own mess and has no one to blame but herself for that particular dustup.
Take a stand and stick with it. Not too much to ask of someone who wants the most powerful job in the world.
Posted by: G Davis | November 2, 2007 2:27 AM
From my blog, food for thought, and a true story on this very topic that happened to me today...
Sunday, November 11, 2007
Governor Spitzer's Law Abiding Illegal Aliens
There has been quite the racket in the media about Governor Spitzer's wrong sighted desire to give supposedly hard working, otherwise law abiding illegal aliens New York drivers licenses. If you turn on Lou Dobbs (which I do without fail) you are sure to hear about this issue, and about Hillary Clinton's stand on it.
So everyone knows, I've always felt, and the law supports me on this, that those here in America illegally, working here in America as illegal aliens are criminals. Yes, I am well aware that some would call me a racist for holding such views, even suggest that I go for some sensitivity training.
In 2002, late fall I went out and bought a 2001 Hyndai Tiburon sports car. It was, and is the newest car I have ever owned. All white, with twin black and red pin stripes running down either side of the car that I had put on shortly after buying the car. The black interior really made the car a beauty. I installed a very high in stereo with a DVD movie player in the car, even added XM radio. I kept the car in good shape, had it fully detailed at least twice a year, washed the car at least a couple times a month and just a few weeks ago had a new exhaust system, tires and a tune up done on my baby to the tune of over $1,500.
What does that have to do with illegal aliens? In my mind, from my perspective, it has everything to do with illegal aliens, has everything to do with government run amok, refusing to deal with a ever growing problem, specifically illegal aliens being, living, and working in America.
Today I was in my home office on the second floor of our home when I heard a crashing sound. I quickly leap to the window which is a few feet from my desk to see a silver SUV like vehicle lurk forward hitting another car, then racing away down the street. I raced down stairs to grab the phone to call 9/11, and with phone in hand ran out onto my porch to see what had happened in this hit and run accident. Imagine my shock when my beautiful little white sports car, the newest vehicle I have ever owned was kicked up onto the curb, it's rear right wheel snapped off the axle and laying on its side.
Now, imagine my anger when I find out that the person in the car was first and foremost, according to one witness extremely intoxicated. It seems the driver of the vehicle who hit mine and another neighbor's vehicle and his buddy had been out boozing it up, and the driver dropped his pal off at the house across the street from my home. Now, this pal, who was in the vehicle just before the incident occurred was NOT TALKING, and not coming out of his house to even say hello to the police officer who was now present on the scene...why you might ask? Seems like his patriot in the car, he too was apparently and illegal alien.
As a little side note to all this, the owner of the second vehicle that was hit in this Malay of automobile carnage wasn't overly anxious to come out and identify themselves as the owner of said vehicle either...you guessed it, said vehicle owner was and is in America illegally.
So, we have a illegal alien here in my town, driving it is assumed without a license, recklessly endangering the lives of others and himself by driving while intoxicated who totally destroys my dearly beloved automobile.
I've spent the afternoon looking through used Hyundai Tiburons online...to get a vehicle similarly equipped, and in about the same shape as mine looks like it will cost me around $9,000-$11,000. In addition to this, I would have to pay to have my stereo and other toys removed from my crashed car and put into the new one, which adds another $1,500 to the mix. Problem is, if the insurance company writes my car off as a totalled vehicle, I am going to get about $5,500 after I pay my deductible on the policy. So, to be made whole, it is going to cost me out of pocket between $5,000 and $7,000 which I do not have. All because our government refuses to deal with illegals, refuses to detain and deport them.
Law abiding people do not enter a country illegally. Law abiding people do not work under the table, or use fake ID to work above board in a job they are not supposed to hold. Law abiding citizens do not drive without a license, do not drive under the influence of alcohol, and do not LEAVE THE SCENE of an accident. Simply stated, illegal aliens need detained, prosecuted and deported, not rewarded with a New York driver license...and yes, I live in the state of New York, and was livid about the Governor's proposal before today's incident occurred.
Posted by: Royce Penstinger | November 11, 2007 10:22 PM
From my blog, food for thought, and a true story on this very topic that happened to me today...
Sunday, November 11, 2007
Governor Spitzer's Law Abiding Illegal Aliens
There has been quite the racket in the media about Governor Spitzer's wrong sighted desire to give supposedly hard working, otherwise law abiding illegal aliens New York drivers licenses. If you turn on Lou Dobbs (which I do without fail) you are sure to hear about this issue, and about Hillary Clinton's stand on it.
So everyone knows, I've always felt, and the law supports me on this, that those here in America illegally, working here in America as illegal aliens are criminals. Yes, I am well aware that some would call me a racist for holding such views, even suggest that I go for some sensitivity training.
In 2002, late fall I went out and bought a 2001 Hyndai Tiburon sports car. It was, and is the newest car I have ever owned. All white, with twin black and red pin stripes running down either side of the car that I had put on shortly after buying the car. The black interior really made the car a beauty. I installed a very high in stereo with a DVD movie player in the car, even added XM radio. I kept the car in good shape, had it fully detailed at least twice a year, washed the car at least a couple times a month and just a few weeks ago had a new exhaust system, tires and a tune up done on my baby to the tune of over $1,500.
What does that have to do with illegal aliens? In my mind, from my perspective, it has everything to do with illegal aliens, has everything to do with government run amok, refusing to deal with a ever growing problem, specifically illegal aliens being, living, and working in America.
Today I was in my home office on the second floor of our home when I heard a crashing sound. I quickly leap to the window which is a few feet from my desk to see a silver SUV like vehicle lurk forward hitting another car, then racing away down the street. I raced down stairs to grab the phone to call 9/11, and with phone in hand ran out onto my porch to see what had happened in this hit and run accident. Imagine my shock when my beautiful little white sports car, the newest vehicle I have ever owned was kicked up onto the curb, it's rear right wheel snapped off the axle and laying on its side.
Now, imagine my anger when I find out that the person in the car was first and foremost, according to one witness extremely intoxicated. It seems the driver of the vehicle who hit mine and another neighbor's vehicle and his buddy had been out boozing it up, and the driver dropped his pal off at the house across the street from my home. Now, this pal, who was in the vehicle just before the incident occurred was NOT TALKING, and not coming out of his house to even say hello to the police officer who was now present on the scene...why you might ask? Seems like his patriot in the car, he too was apparently and illegal alien.
As a little side note to all this, the owner of the second vehicle that was hit in this Malay of automobile carnage wasn't overly anxious to come out and identify themselves as the owner of said vehicle either...you guessed it, said vehicle owner was and is in America illegally.
So, we have a illegal alien here in my town, driving it is assumed without a license, recklessly endangering the lives of others and himself by driving while intoxicated who totally destroys my dearly beloved automobile.
I've spent the afternoon looking through used Hyundai Tiburons online...to get a vehicle similarly equipped, and in about the same shape as mine looks like it will cost me around $9,000-$11,000. In addition to this, I would have to pay to have my stereo and other toys removed from my crashed car and put into the new one, which adds another $1,500 to the mix. Problem is, if the insurance company writes my car off as a totalled vehicle, I am going to get about $5,500 after I pay my deductible on the policy. So, to be made whole, it is going to cost me out of pocket between $5,000 and $7,000 which I do not have. All because our government refuses to deal with illegals, refuses to detain and deport them.
Law abiding people do not enter a country illegally. Law abiding people do not work under the table, or use fake ID to work above board in a job they are not supposed to hold. Law abiding citizens do not drive without a license, do not drive under the influence of alcohol, and do not LEAVE THE SCENE of an accident. Simply stated, illegal aliens need detained, prosecuted and deported, not rewarded with a New York driver license...and yes, I live in the state of New York, and was livid about the Governor's proposal before today's incident occurred.
Posted by: Royce Penstinger | November 11, 2007 10:24 PM