One almost wonders if Ms Meyers might be on record somewhere arguing that private behavior, however distasteful (and I'm not convinced that Favreau is "groping" the cut out as he is propping it up while his buddy mugs with the beer bottle), ought not to be considered in evaluating a gov't employee's merits.

It's just insane. Favreau isn't a public figure, he hasn't been elected to anything, he's just a speechwriter. And he he wasn't harassing an actual woman, he was goofing around with a cardboard cutout.

Meanwhile, you can be a Republican senator who frequents prostitutes (Vitter), solicits sex with strangers in airport bathrooms (Craig), tells demeaning jokes about Chelsea Clinton's parentage (McCain). Favreau's behavior might not be perfect, but there's 10 million other more serious issues to worry about first.

"Did something she regretted after having one drink too many?"

Ummmm, like drive a car and get arrested?

"And he he wasn't harassing an actual woman, he was goofing around with a cardboard cutout."

I mean, really... what can you say? "Gee, it's totally better that he was disrespectful to the image of a woman than an actual woman?" In college I had neighbors in my dorm take all of Vanessa Williams second layout in Penthouse and paste it up all over their room. Women in the dorm were outraged. It's totally different, like, when it's just images of women on paper, right?

Adam, I like your blogging and I appreciate your insights... but really - could you be more dismissive of the idea of sexism? I'm guessing no.

Good thing Obama isn't "emotional" like all these crazy ladeez! Seriously, what's wrong with chicks? Don't they know we have more important things to focus on????

Weboy - seconded!!

the charges were dropped, cjwhite, how dare you!

Besides, driving on the wrong side of the road and endagering people's lives is nothing compared to taking photos at a party. Those photos are *SYMBOLIC*. Don't you get it?

Weboy and Redstar are absolutely right: doing something stupid at a cocktail party is _exactly the same_ as continually doing something stupid, non-stop for ever. Saying something stupid in the heat of the moment is _exactly the same_ as painting it on your wall in large letters in public view. Saying boy I would not mind having sex with that woman is _exactly the same_ as raping that woman.

Oh David, quit oversimplifying: I said no such thing; what I said was that harassment is problematic, and mistreating women is problematic whether it's a live girl or a disrespectful image. This "it's just one of those party things" excuse making can also be over-applied: is it just "youthful hijinks" to wind up groping some girl at the party? Of course not; we make distinctions, but we shouldn't overgeneralize these things into meaninglessness, nor should we just sweepingly excuse misbehavior. For most of this week, I thought the Favreau thing wasn't worth my time because I figured the sexism of it was obvious, and wouldn't just be explained away. Now I see one actually has to make these stands explicit: I'm sure Favreau is a nice guy, and not some sexist jerk, and even that it was just letting off some steam during a high intensity campaign; nevertheless what it suggests - that images of Hillary Clinton are fair game for sexist grope jokes and sub-human treatment is.. at least, somewhat troubling. And that's what Myers, me, and a number of others are trying to get at. Is that so hard to get?

This is typical of the ObamafanBoyz thinking: Degrading women and running a misogynist campaign is fine because it is for you. Obama shows no concern? Obama shows no concern about anything until it penetrates his narcissistic ego.

Favreau's behavior is disgusting and offensive to many outside your clique. As a center of the Obama campaign, he is a public figure. You may approve of behavior that is degrading women and to be sure, it was typical of the campaign and his media harlots like Matthews, Olbermann, Robinson, Maddow.

This degradation is directed at Obama's Secretary of State who is will represent his administration and this country around the world. If this exemplifies the way she will be treated by the Obama camp, it's a sorry comment on Obama. To allow this image of her being groped and degraded by a close associate of the president elect, by someone who appears to be on track as a member of the administration, says two things to the nations and diplomats of the world: shit on her since we do; and, secondly, we don't respect you enough to send someone we respect. I realize that Obama probably shares this contempt because as was pointed out long ago: a fish rots from the head.

His refusal act upon the irreducible fact of this photo is paradigmatic of Obama's political behavior. He is loath to do the right thing if that thing involves a criticism of himself.

This clearly shows Favreau is an immature jerk, a fool, and unfit to hold any government office let alone have been such a crucial member of the Obama team. There is no excuse for this.

Jeez Mike. Little wound up today?

This is typical of the ObamafanBoyz thinking: Degrading women and running a misogynist campaign is fine because it is for you.

When you start in about the 'misongynist campaign', you lose credibility from the get-go.

Sorry

Weboy, thank you for your considered response. What I was trying to say in my rather overwrought comment was you were, in my view, comparing apples to oranges. Putting picture of naked (or near naked) women on your wall is a constant affront as long as they are up, day after day, non stop. Doing something stupid at a party is not a constant affront. Groping a girl is an assault on an actual person. What Favreau did was not an assault on an actual person.

So what should the response be? Myers says a groveling call to Sen. Clinton (already done, I gather) is insufficient, and that Obama should "take him to the woodshed". But the problem I have is, I do not know what that means. Do you? Historically, it meant being spanked (or more correctly, beaten), and then it became a term meaning a stern talking to, but what exactly should be done publically? (The point of the woodshed is it was out of public view.)

What exactly are you proposing? We have two choices as far as I can see: the apology already given or being fired. Neither Myers nor you seem to be calling for his firing but what are you calling for? (Note Mike in the comment after yours does call for his firing.)

I really do not see anyone excusing Favreau's behavior as untroubling or anything but reprehensible, but I am saying his behavior is not in the same category as the behaviors you are comparing it to. And I think Serwer is asking how much outrage is necessary.

This clearly shows Favreau is an immature jerk, a fool, and unfit to hold any government office let alone have been such a crucial member of the Obama team.

But vote for and support a trillion dollar illegal war of aggression that kills millions and you get a job as chief diplomat.

Oh please won't someone think of the cardboard cutouts!

I just think it's interesting that it's socially unacceptable (and rightly so) to say or do racist BS, even if you're drunk or at "social" or "private" events, but we don't apply the same sanctions to sexist behavior. The alibi-ing that Adam and some of the commenters are doing seems to indicate that a lot of guys want to preserve some space where this kind of thing can happen. Or at least where their friends or odeological allies can do it and not lose their sinecures or lofty positions. It's all very high school. Dehumanizing people in general is thought to be wrong, but if someone you like does it to someone you kinda dislike, then the disingenuous excuse-making starts. Interesting standards!

No, Fleder... won't somebody think of how we treat women.

David - the picture was up on a Facebook page - isn't that the modern "dorm room wall"? - until someone pointed out what it was, and then it came down. I share the concern of other Hillary supporters that rarely, if ever, has the Obama campaign really addressed sexism in a thoughtful way, surely one of the issues this campaign raised (for Clinton and for Palin, and for the public). Thus we get Adam and others insisting, yet again, that we've got a "no big deal" situation, it's a poster not a person, yada, yada, yada. At the start of the week, I figured Favreau would get a dressing down and that might be that. But the silences, the justifications and such have pushed me to being less sympathetic overall - if Favreau doesn't go, at least somebody in authority should be pretty clear on what's problematic here and why it won't be tolerated. I think the larger point is that this campaign has reenergized a kind of feminism that's been kind of silent for the last ten years or so - that's needed to address a revived cultural sexism - and isn't going to be quit about it. And I think the first lesson for many newly radicalized women is discovering that the liberal men they expect to egt it often don't. That may not affect Favreau, ultimately... but I wouldn't expect this issue to just go away, either.

"David - the picture was up on a Facebook page - isn't that the modern "dorm room wall"? - until someone pointed out what it was, and then it came down."

I guess I should read the news more closely. I missed that (I thought it was a picture taken by someone and circulated which leaked into the media). In that case, I agree with you.

Just adding to my last comment, I apologize to Weboy and Redstar for not being reasonably informed on the facts and thus misconstruing the argument they were making, entirely through my own laziness.

I have yet to read any defense of Favreau, he has been denigrated non stop for 3 days, all who comment on this agree he’s a boorish buffoon, he has apologized....and yet it still drags on.
Fire him. Of course a standard so ridiculously high will be set no one will ever again be fit to serve in any capacity, but it seems nothing short of that will do for some of you.
And until Dee Dee Myers faces some formal punishment for driving on the wrong side of the road (ahem) I assume Weboy, Mike and all the rest of you will demand her facing appropriate punishment for her high crimes and misdemeanors just as you are demanding for Mr Favreau. MSNBC and PBS must do the right thing and fire Little Miss Purity right now! What message does her continued employment send? That it’s ok to drive recklessly? That pedestrian lives are of no value? That mixing a few drinks and a little spin through the neighborhood is ok?

For the most part, liberals have spent the last ten years arguing that people's private lives are just that -- in large part because of the behavior of a former president that Myers used to work for. In going after Jon Favreau, Myers has essentially laid out the argument for impeaching Bill Clinton.

Not in the least. Those of us liberals who thought the Bill Clinton witch hunt just that didn't understand the need to investigate an affair between two consenting adults, and, remember, Lewinsky never claimed harassment).

What Favreau and his bud are doing, and that it made it to Facebook, is actual harassment. Yeah, that's not gonna make for a hostile work environment. Right.

Obama needs to speak LOUDLY on this one. Soon.

Does it offend you now

Where the hell was Dee Dee Myers when her boss was having a sexual affair with a 22 year-old subordinate. I have never worked at a company where the CEO would not have been fired for what Clinton did. Myers had no problem with that behavior, which is a textbook definition of sexual misconduct at the workplace. And the white hood comparison. WTF?

"But say that Favreau had been caught in a picture making a racist joke about Obama rather than a sexist joke about Hillary Clinton."

You've got your analogy wrong. What you need to think about is what if Favreau worked for Hillary and was caught making a racist "joke" about Obama with very clear, physically violent implications? And yes, the image does have violent implications, it's called sexual assault.

But Obama wouldn't need to call for Favreau's firing in this hypothetical -- just as Hillary has not. He wouldn't have to call for it, because it would be the obvious and proper course of action, as it should be with Obama.

It isn't though, because as we've seen (even if everyone hasn't acknowledged it yet), Obama doesn't care what you think. Retroactive telecom immunity, anyone? How 'bout Gates at Defense? Clearly, I could go on, he hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already demonstrated his contempt for anyone else's concerns.

Speaking of dorm rooms, boyz clubs, sexual harrassment, etc., I'd love it if all the women commenters in this thread besides me could raise their hands/drop another comment here.

I'm guessing...maybe...Iphie...????

Seriously, look around you.

Sincere thanks to Mike, David, El Santorum and Weboy for being allies on this one...

It's fairly amazing that a post like this shows up on a 'liberal site' without a hint of irony. The fact that Mr. Serwer feels comfortable making it is emblematic of the problem we face.

I have never worked at a company where the CEO would not have been fired for what Clinton did.

Nobody is asking for Obama to be fired, only Favreau.

I'm sorry but people's responses to this article are the exact kind of ridiculousness that Serwer is trying to address in the article.

I don't think there's any approval of what happened in the article, but rather an ownership of the idea that most people are guilty of innappropriate and offensive conduct at some point or another. As David pointed out in an earlier post, the issue here is not whether what Favreau did was ok (it wasn't, at all), the issue is what an appropriate response to it is.

Little is accomplished by bashing people over the head in situations like this, it gets people who don't understand extremely defensive, isolates people who are in favor of a measured approach, and helps fuel people who are fine with the level of sexism occurring in the situation. I fail to see how a formal apology to Clinton, followed by a public apology is not enough of a reaction to this. Favreau is responsible for his own actions, there's no approval by anyone else here and nothing official about it.

….Little wound up today…. Chris 3:43 PM
Just sick of reading excuses for unacceptable behavior. You're offended? Tough.
…When you start in about the 'misongynist campaign', you lose credibility from the get-go…. Jim 4:11 PM
Whine me a river. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
But vote for and support a trillion dollar illegal war of aggression that kills millions and you get a job as chief diplomat….Fledermaus 4:27 PM
You also get a job as Vice President, in case you didn't know it. In fact, since Obama also voted to fund and continue that illegal war, you get to be president.
…. a standard so ridiculously high will be set no one will ever again be fit to serve in any capacity…. Bob 5:43 PM
Since when is no sexual harassment such a high standard that no one can meet it? What is this business of continuing to attempt to smear Meyers? It reeks of GOP SOP.
Where the hell was Dee Dee Myers when her boss was having a sexual affair.... DaveB 9:38 PM
In fact Meyers was no longer in the administration at that time, but what is your point supposed to be, smearing Meyers? Bill Clinton's consensual action is irrelevant.
….there's no approval by anyone else here and nothing official about it….. Awkward Silence 1:40 PM
Nonsense, all the excuses for Favreau are tantamount to approval and putting it on Facebook was to show off one's acts with pride.

…When you start in about the 'misongynist campaign', you lose credibility from the get-go…. Jim 4:11 PM
Here's a bit of misogyny from the media and Obamacan Party and this is anti-Clinton misogyny that is worth reviewing

“Since when is no sexual harassment such a high standard that no one can meet it?”
A person at a small gathering of friends does something dumb. Someone other than the dumb guy posts a photo of the act on line. Now the dumb guy is guilty of sexual harassment and needs to be fired immediately. Sorry, I just don’t see how offensive private behavior on one’s own time is worthy of dismissal from ones job. There is NO ONE who could meet that standard. Tell me you’ve never laughed at a joke with any racist, sexist, ageist, whateverist overtones. Tell me you’ve never uttered an expletive regarding someone of a different race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. Tell me you’ve never had a private moment among friends you would fear to have revealed in the national press.
“What is this business of continuing to attempt to smear Meyers? It reeks of GOP SOP.”
Amazing. From fire him for private behavior to how dare you smear Myers in the blink of an eye. How am I smearing her? By pointing out she was cited for drunk driving? Yes, I know, the charges were later dropped, as they so often seem to be when the accused is a wealthy and politically connected individual. But she was driving erratically on the wrong side of the road. Drunk drivers kill over 10,000 people a year in the US, so as long as we’re talking impact……
Of course I don’t believe for a minute Ms. Myers should be fired for what she did. And frankly, I’ve always had a great deal of respect for her and her refusal to quietly accept second-class citizenship from the Clinton White House. But start down that road of every last private misdeed being fair game and no one is safe. That may be a world you want to live in (although of course you’d be the first to cry foul when your turn – as it inevitably would – came around) but it ain’t the world I want to live in.

Favreau should be thrown under the bus because, even leaving aside the sexism, he's a management problem for Obama.

1. Favreau's actions undermine the authority of Obama's Secretary of State. If Obama won't discipline those who disrespect her, how can the leaders of other countries be expected to respect her?

2. Favreau's post on his FaceBook page is exactly why the transition team demanded that all FaceBook material be disclosed. Surely he broke the spirit of the transition team's rules, if not the letter.

3. Favreau's actions create workplace issues for the Obama administration. Can women staffers be confident they'll be given equal treatment in the Obama administration? Why? What if the cutout had been an image of a woman staffer, instead of Hillary? Should Favreau be disciplined in that case?

Finally, there's the issue of Favreau's buddy, who wore an Obama branded shirt. People in the corporate world have been fired for trashing the brand in an inappropriate social setting. Why doesn't that standard apply here?

Margolies writes:

.... a groveling call to Sen. Clinton (already done, I gather)...

What a pitiful non-story all created by petty and bitter people, either too PC or sad losers. The totally uncalled attack on Jon Favreau is just a weak attempt to try and embarrass Our President Elect Barack Obama.

Jon Favreau is a very talented young guy and it is clear how well he has and does work with Barack Obama, I have followed Jon since his days at Holy Cross College and working on the John Kerry Campaign and he has much to offer and will do at The White House.

All this petty discussion when young children are suffering on Zimbabwe with Cholera and people World Wide have huge debts and face losing job and homes this Christmas and the Few see this as so important.

After much soul-searching I have come to see Lambert not as the bitter Clinton-Dead-Ender I previously thought of him as, but rather as a prescient and insightful commentator. He is absolutely right.
And I say why stop there? Much deadwood fraught with sexist and racist baggage needs to be jettisoned from Obamanation before it is too late.
The ultimate stain on America’s soul is racism and obviously we cannot allow openly racist people to serve in Obamaland. So as far as a certain Secretary of State is concerned, let’s look back over the last 6 months, shall we:

- Clinton’s co-chair Billy Shaheen accused Obama of being a drug dealer
- Clinton’s staff leaks a photo of Sen. Obama in Somalian clothing
- Clinton’s husband, apropos of nothing, compares Obama’s campaign to Jesse Jackson’s bids in 84 and 88 – in other words he’s just another token black candidate
- Geraldine Ferraro – I’ll say nothing more because you all know the details – but Sen Clinton never publicly demanded an apology or resignation from her, although Ferraro did eventually resign of her own accord – hurling absurd reverse-discrimination charges over her shoulder on the way out (and she has a long record of questionable statements and actions on race thus making her being brought into the campaign an affront from the start)
- Sen Clinton made a point of linking Obama with Rev. Wright and Rev Wright with Louis Farrakhan, all in the name of racial harmony I’m sure. Talk about your GOP SOP
- Sen. Clinton on the Obama/Wright controversy: “Given all that we have heard and seen, he would not have been my pastor.”
- Mrs. Clinton to Rev. Wright in 1998: “Thank you so much for your kind message. I am touched by your prayers and by the many expressions of encouragement and support I have received from friends across our country. You have my best wishes.”
- Sen. Clinton: "I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,….Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

Lambert, please accept my sincerest apologies as I join with you to demand the immediate dismissal of the sexist lout whose behavior would never pass muster in the corporate world. I assume you will join me in demanding President-Elect Obama find a non-racist to serve as Secretary of State. There must be someone who in a last ditch effort to win the nomination didn’t resort to base and vile race baiting.

Bob, your examples have a bit of umm.. spin in them. Ah well as long as you're sourcing from Drudge I suppose you can credibly accuse.

jjj: You're right - the Sen. and her husband never missing an opportunity to link Obama to Wright, Farrakan and Jackson; pure spin. Only Drudge could see anything racial involved in that.

So mimed sexual battery is okay? Good to know.

Favreau’s behavior has broader implications. The Facebook incident is not just about how frat boys in the US see things. This is about how diplomats, national leaders -- and ordinary Middle East citizens see our new Secretary of State and the new President who appointed her but allows his own White House chief of speechwriters to publicly insult her.

For Favreau to show public disrespect for our next Secretary of State, and for the President-elect to not call him on it, is a sexist insult towards not just Hillary Clinton, but toward all women. As with racism, everyone loses when sexism is tolerated and excused.

Favreau should be fired, not edified.

rolex replica rolex replica